Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

Braindead's Mordor Site - Return to Mordor: The Depths Of Dejenol _ General Discussion _ Back to Mordor after far too long away!

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 18 2018, 07:48 PM

...decided I wanted to join in too!"

Greetings folks,

Well I've already announced my recent return in the official newbie thread but having read through the currently active threads about people's games with solo characters, I feel inspired to write up my own experiences of starting up Mordor again after so long away from it. All based on a fresh install with only my memories and the occasional tip from the forum to guide me!

When I used to play this game regularly back in my teens I was always fond of solo characters and never really got to grips with running a party. Consequently I don't think I ever made it below Level 6 and although I know of a lot of the later-game and end-game stuff from what I've read on here over the years, I've yet to actually experience it myself and that's something I want to tick off my bucket list in life. I mean, exploring the real world is alright and all, but what good will that do if I'm lying on my death bed thinking, "I really wish I'd confronted Asmodeus in that Mordor game at some point..."? smile.gif

Anyway, onto the game. I decided I wanted to go with the legacy character approach, so I started by creating a big dumb giant (maximum strength and con, the rest in dexterity) to quickly map out the first couple of levels and harvest tomes to be passed on to legacy characters. This big dumb giant is called Grogbog and due to his abysmal mental stats he can't even join the Warrior guild. I mean, he could, but they all just laugh at how stupid he is and he feels embarrassed and starts crying, so the guildmaster refuses to let him join. Or that's my interpretation anyway. Nevertheless he's a level 40 Nomad with 247 hits and can easily hold his own on the first couple of levels.

While it's nice knowing I have a big dumb brute who can harvest tomes by mowing down most every monster in his path, it does get a bit boring when he encounters a slave group so I decided to create another non-legacy character who would perform the same function as Grogbog. This was a good gnome whom I called Gundya, and gave him to the Mage guild so he could charm and instakill the weaker mobs. Unfortunately he was soon abandoned after a few failed resurrections led to my very first ever experience of....complications! Bloody hell it was nasty, stats drained all over the place! So I just gave all of his equipment to Grogbog and deleted him, then created a new gnome with the imaginative name of Gundya v2. Gundya v2 has thankfully fared better than his predecessor and is currently a level 30 Nomad and a level 22 Mage who can charm most insects, animals and humanoids on levels 1 and 2. Unfortunately he's currently pinned at Mage and has a quest to retrieve a padded leather cap, which I'm yet to find any of. Now I could forfeit and continue climbing the Mage ladder, but I think instead this actually presents a good point to stop. Why?

Well, the whole point of Grogbog and later Gundya v2 was to stock up on tomes for the legacy characters, one of whom is now actually ready to start adventuring. Who are they?

As I want to experience the late and end-game this time around, I'm going to force myself to learn how to effectively play with a party. Hence, I've created four characters in readiness for this:
Brundath - Neutral Male Giant. The leader and tank who will level in Warrior primarily, but also Seeker for the perception and movement spells.
Gnumen - Good Male Gnome. A secondary fighter via Paladin but mainly focusing on Mage and Sorcerer for all-round magical support. Gnumen now has maximum constitution thanks to tomes so he will be trained up going forward.
Mythraxa - Good Female Elf. Another spellcaster, her focus will be purely on the magic guilds of Sorcerer and Wizard. Not sure if it's worth levelling in Mage also...it means an extra set of instakill spells to share with Gnumen but I think I want to focus on the Sorcerer-exclusive spells primarily since from reading the forums it sounds like Sorcerer spells such as Electric Field are very useful in the deeper dungeon levels.
Nothrya - Neutral Female Osiri. The thief and healer of the party, possibly with Sorcerer levels also to add additional magical firepower where appropriate. But thief will definitely be her main focus.

Even as I ready myself for party-based adventuring, I cannot deny the sheer joy of running around with my non-legacy mage Gundya v2, enslaving monsters left right and centre only to sell them at the Confinement. Even more joyful is charming Enchanters and Charmers, then letting them slaughter my enemies for me with their wound spells. Actually for the first dungeon level, a pair of enchanters will make short work of most every basic mob on there so that might be worth giving to Gnumen as he claws his way up through the first few guild levels. Can companions be transferred between characters in the same way as items, or can that only be achieved by selling to the Confinement and re-purchasing with the receiving character?

If you got this far then thank you for reading! I will return occasionally with updates on how my party is progressing, although as I want to ensure maximum hit points for all of them it will be a while before the four of them start adventuring together as only Gnumen has maximum constitution at this point in time. And roaming only the upper two levels doesn't exactly make one wealthy enough to re-align all those EVIL tomes I seem to be picking up not_ok.gif. Oh well, never mind smile.gif

Posted by: fischsemmel Dec 19 2018, 02:55 AM

Awesome! Endless replayability here, for sure. And I know all about the padded leather cap roadblock from my current solo project, hah!

A strong, full-party setup probably doesn't NEED to do optimal leveling route to be successful. When I last played a couple years ago, I had a party a lot like yours (giant warrior/seeker, a couple dwarf warrior/healer/sorc, and an osiri thief/healer/sorc). I "beat" the game with about 150 hours played iirc, never having significant issues with anything being too tough or the leveling being too slow (thief and warrior were up over 400 I think with main casters ~250), and they were nonlegacy. So if you do start chomping at the bit, you should be ok if you choose to get at it before everyone is max con and ready for optimal leveling.

Playing from memory with light tips from the web might make it quite a bit tougher though depending on how good your memory is! Good luck, I'll keep up to date with your posts smile.gif

Light spoiler mostly for convenience and time saving, if you want: save those evil tomes until you have several, combine them at the store, then realign them all together for the same cost you'd pay to realign each individually!

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 19 2018, 08:12 PM

Thanks fischsemmel, I hadn't realised that was possible and doubt I would have discovered that on my own! Should make things a bit easier then when I've got just enough disposable gold to buy up all the evil tomes I've, annoyingly, already sold to the store smile.gif

I must admit it was the story of your solo game that inspired me to get started again. I know I won't be progressing nearly as fast as you have but hopefully I'll still have some interesting updates to give nonetheless!

Well, with that in mind I might as well go boot it up and get started smile.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 19 2018, 09:23 PM

Well...I can't claim this first hour of Nomad levelling has been uneventful!

I started levelling up Gnumen, my Good Gnome whose primary guild will be Mage, as he's currently got maximum Constitution and decent dexterity. His strength was just slightly lacking at 9, but very quickly found a Tome of Might which I realigned to Good and used on him, so now he can equip most basic items that have a strength requirement.

The notes I made as I played:
- Joined Mage immediately to get the level 1 spells, then back to Nomad for the first 30 levels
- Levelled up to 5 in Nomad, got my first quest already for a Green Slime. Chose to forfeit to exploit the constitution level bonus. Sent back to level 4. Gained a whole two additional HP upon my return to level 5.
- Encountered a Tengu at Nomad level 5 and eventually killed it after getting through about 6 or 7 insect companions charmed during my explorations.
- In these early levels just levelling as quickly as possible rather than waiting to pin each time, in order to increase early HP
- Got quested again at level 8 for a Kyu Yetro. Decided I would pin and forfeit, even though they're easy enough to find, just to exploit the extra HP mechanic.
- Encountered another Tengu at Nomad level 8. Immediately fled as had no companions around. Forfeited to level 6, found four insects and went back to fight it. Lost all four insects and had to flee back to town for healing. Went back to take revenge and killed it with one hit (but not before it hit me and inflicted both poison and disease. Good thing I have Gundya v2 around to heal me at the entrance!). For my sins I looted from it...an evil iron hammer. Totally worth it.
- At Nomad level 6, armed with three companions, decided to attack my first Pseudo Dragon. It died easily and attacked only my companions, so no harm done. Then did the same to a second one that had a chest, same result.
- Thanks to the earlier forfeits, reached 102 HP at Nomad level 9. Two Gredlan Rogues offered to join me which was nice. Then they died because I decided to attack a pair of Enchanters. Silly rogues, offering to join someone as needlessly belligerent as me.
- At levels 11 and 12 I earned 10 HP each level, so now at level 12 I have 130 HP. Not bad going for a gnome. Also carrying four tomes which I can't afford to identify...although I've at least identified that the first two are NOT Tomes of Lies, so that's a bonus!

And for now that's it, though no doubt I shall return tomorrow to grind that first floor some more! Maybe I'll start increasing my Mage levels up to and including my Nomad level to give Gnumen some better spellcasting power, and perhaps get ready to start grinding Dungeon Level 2 also. Quite happy with that level of progress so far, but it's only the beginning and that's only for one character! The others will be brought out in time smile.gif

Posted by: fischsemmel Dec 19 2018, 10:30 PM

Hah, good times. I swear one of these days I'll play a good mage (doubt I can't convince myself to do evil since you get so few things joining you then without charm, I think) from scratch.

It's interesting to me how you plan to have a party, but you level then up separately to begin with. I'd never have thought to do things that way!

Posted by: Roland Dec 20 2018, 01:03 AM

It sounds like you're off to a good start. I think you should focus on Nothrya next. You want to get access to Charm of Opening ASAP. Also, an Osiri Healer could use a head start because of the high experience required for each level.

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 22 2018, 10:40 AM

QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Dec 19 2018, 10:30 PM) *
It's interesting to me how you plan to have a party, but you level then up separately to begin with. I'd never have thought to do things that way!


I guess because I'm so used to playing solo characters, it's easier for me to get them each to an individually-survivable state so that they can absorb all the inevitable miscoordinations I'll make when learning how to operate them all efficiently as a party smile.gif

QUOTE (Roland @ Dec 20 2018, 01:03 AM) *
It sounds like you're off to a good start. I think you should focus on Nothrya next. You want to get access to Charm of Opening ASAP. Also, an Osiri Healer could use a head start because of the high experience required for each level.


Thanks, yes I agree Nothrya would be the next one to focus on. I'm currently passing any Neutral-aligned tomes I identify onto Nothrya so when her stats are ready I'll start levelling her also. Perhaps even have Gnumen and Nothrya venture as a two-person party...would be a good way to gently ease myself into the feel of coordinating a party. Yes, I think that's my next step then!

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 22 2018, 10:42 AM

And now for the latest updates, all centred around Gnumen currently:

20/12/18

- Got quested at Nomad level 17 for an I'ssus. Decided to switch to Mage for a bit to get more spells and get the instakill spell costs down for faster Nomad grinding when I deliberately forfeit.
- Finally identified the two Tomes of Endurance, both were Neutral so gave them to Nothrya. She's now only one point away from maximum constitution.
- Descended to Level 2 (south-west part) and encountered Kyu Ianmo, Kyu Hetha and Giant Frogs in the stairs room. Must have got themselves beached somehow.
- Got back to Nomad level 17 again only to be quested again. Had 14 more HP by this point and allowed the forfeit once again, back down to 15.
- Got back to Nomad level 17 AGAIN...and got quested again. At 200 HP now, which is rather good going. This time the quest is for a Gredlan Rogue...have to be careful to ensure I don't accidentally complete the quest now.

21/12/18

- Forfeited again after successfully avoided fulfilling the quest. Down to level 15 and 192 HP, so if this pattern continues I'll have no problems in the HP department by the time I reach Nomad level 30
- While climbing back up the Nomad level 16 ladder, a Pseudo-Dragon offered to join me. Sold him for ~438k which is helping to finance the seemingly endless tome indentifications. Felt a tad bad selling him but he only had 16HP so his onward survival was hardly guaranteed anyway.
- FINALLY made it to Nomad level 17 without requiring a quest! Now have 205 HP as a result of all this deliberate forfeiting. I hope these minor gains turn out to be worth it later on.

22/12/18

- Got up to Nomad 21 before the next quest was assigned, this time to return a Silver Cross. Now at 238 HP so with all these forfeits I'll probably have 300+ HP by the time I reach Nomad 30.
- In other news I'm finding that with Neutral and Evil tomes in the store, it becomes much easier to guess the tome's alignment based on how much it costs to identify once I've got the initial type identified (e.g. "of Agility"). Saved a fair bit on identification costs by just reading the tomes at that level of ID, confident that I know it is Good aligned based on the sell/identify price in the store. Indeed on that very basis just increased Dexterity from 19 to 20 by reading a semi-identified Tome of Agility using that method.
- Demoted to Nomad level 18 and 225 HP after forfeiting the Silver Cross quest. This is certainly an exercise in patience.
- Gained 10 HP going back up to Nomad level 19. Perhaps this Snakes and Ladders style grinding is worth it after all!
- Had a pair of Scavengers offer to join on Dungeon level 2. Straight to the confinement they went. Slave trading seems quite a profitable activity in Mordor.
- Gained another 11 HP when I reached level 21. This quest forfeiting exploit certainly pays off if you're persistent enough to go with it.
- Reached Nomad level 21 again...and quested for a Prism of Sanctuary. This is getting a tad absurd now. Then again 254 HP isn't to be sniffed at, I suppose.

I'll likely be playing some more later on today once real-life distractions have been suitably dealt with smile.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 22 2018, 04:17 PM

22/12/18 Part 2

- Forfeited down to level 18 and 241 HP. In two minds whether to sell most of the Evil tomes I currently have in the bank in order to fund bulk re-alignment of the Evil tomes of Learning and Insight I currently have to ramp up Gnumen's spellcasting capabilities. It means faster grinding but Learning and Insight tomes don't seem to come along so often for me...decisions decisions. It's really a question of what do I wait for - enough gold to realign everything I have, or finding the tomes I actually need for this character.
- Safely made it to Nomad level 21 and didn't get quested - woohoo! Now at 272 HP. I might do a parody of Mordor levelling one day and call it HP Quest.
- Surpassed 300 HP at Nomad level 25 - now have 309 HP. Contrast this with Gundya v2 who had 6 Con and fulfilled all his Nomad quests where possible...who has a mere 184 HP. Perhaps all this effort is worth it after all. Also I think Gundya v2 lost a bit of HP and Con through draining and resurrection respectively.
- Finally saved up enough to re-align some Evil tomes. Did this for a set of two Tomes of Learning, which means I can FINALLY charm humanoids and undead now. At least I'll be able to recover my investment more quickly now by restocking the slave compound confinement with more creatures.
- As a result of the above, I've just learned the hard way that slaves are worth absolutely zilch when selling them. And yet the confinement charges a whole 13 gold to buy one. THIRTEEN GOLD?! That's robbery.
- I must say though, companion grinding is a hell of a lot more fun now that I can charm almost every monster on DL 1. Found it a bit tedious previously when I could only charm insects or animals, but now that I'm charming and selling everything my gold is suddenly skyrocketing compared to before (OK so I'm still only at 632k as I write this but it's still a lot faster than I was earning before this). It also helps having high enough Int and Wis to fully identify all the monsters I'm charming, meaning I can sell them for full price at the confinement without losing money on identification costs. Unlike some items, it seems all monsters will sell for a higher price than just their original offer plus the identification costs. At least that's true for all the ones I've sold thus far anyway.
- At Nomad level 28 and the same stats as before, all items I pick up from DL 1 are now automatically identified at the penultimate level which is very useful. For one, cursed items can be sold at their greatest profit, and in all other respects it's just nice knowing specifically what item I have so that I can make more informed choices about banking/using/selling without spending so much on ID costs. My enjoyment of the game has just increased immensely.
- Made it to level 30 at last! ... of course I have been quested at level 30, which begs the question...do I grind and forfeit in order to gain even more HP? Oh sod it, why not? It's not like 356 HP at Nomad level 30 is plenty anyway tongue.gif Of course I am quested for an I'ssus so again, as with the Gredlan Rogue, I must be careful not to kill one by mistake. Combat default to "Defend" it is then!
- It is done - demoted to Nomad level 27, HP reduced to 342. I'll keep doing this until I reach level 30 without being quested, at which point I'm leaving Nomad behind to concentrate on Mage instead. Eventually I'll also join and level Paladin for the fighting ability but that's low priority at present.
- Got quested again at Nomad 28, this time to defeat a Rowdy. Oh well, more HP for the grinder.
- Down to Nomad 25 again with 340 HP. Going to resume Mage levelling for the time being to get the spell costs down and increase the range of Charm spells available before resuming the infinite Nomad grind.

Posted by: korexus Dec 22 2018, 09:11 PM

QUOTE (BLauritson @ Dec 22 2018, 04:17 PM) *
- As a result of the above, I've just learned the hard way that slaves are worth absolutely zilch when selling them. And yet the confinement charges a whole 13 gold to buy one. THIRTEEN GOLD?! That's robbery.


Check out the cost to realign them. sneaky.gif


Sounds like you're having fun. I have a few days off over Christmas/New Year, maybe I should break out a party too.

Posted by: Roland Dec 23 2018, 06:38 AM

The quest parameter for Nomads is supposedly just 20%, but it sounds like you're running at around 30%. My Gnome gets quested more than my Dwarves. That is to be expected in the Paladin guild, but he seems to get extra quests from his other guilds as well.

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 23 2018, 09:09 AM

QUOTE (korexus @ Dec 22 2018, 09:11 PM) *
Check out the cost to realign them. sneaky.gif


Sounds like you're having fun. I have a few days off over Christmas/New Year, maybe I should break out a party too.


Before I actually found out what the cost was, thinking it was going to be something silly like 27 gold, I was planning to write an equally facetious reaction based on that.

Now that I've seen what it ACTUALLY costs...hmm...it would certainly negate any gold problems I've had thus far, but I think I prefer more legitimate methods of obtaining gold for the time being. Even so though...good to know sneaky.gif

QUOTE (Roland @ Dec 23 2018, 06:38 AM) *
The quest parameter for Nomads is supposedly just 20%, but it sounds like you're running at around 30%. My Gnome gets quested more than my Dwarves. That is to be expected in the Paladin guild, but he seems to get extra quests from his other guilds as well.


Curious, yes I thought that Nomad was supposed to be questing less than what it has been for me, but then again it could just be the whims of the RNG which, in my experience, rarely conforms to its intended statistical distribution (not just in Mordor but in most games that use the default RNG function of whatever programming language they're using). Then again it's not truly random anyway so perhaps that's to be expected smile.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 23 2018, 09:37 PM

And now for the latest essay:

22/12/18 Part 3

- Only downside to levelling in Mage is that I can't equip the Iron Helmet which was giving me +1 to Intelligence, thereby enabling me to cast the Charm Undead spell. Luckily found a Good-aligned Tome of Learning shortly after I realised this so that problem is now solved.
- Upon reaching Mage level 11 I was quested for a Twisted Dwarf. Fortunately for my sanity I'm actually intending to complete the Mage quests.
- Even more fortunately for my sanity I actually completed it. Was slightly unnerved when a Pseudo Dragon spawned in their normal breeding ground (which made for some funny looking dwarves), but luckily they appeared there around 4,000 experience before pinning so all is well.
- Reached Mage level 15 and resumed Nomad again. Quested at level 28...Hiksae. Patience is a virtue, allegedly.
- And I accidentally completed my quest. Oh well, probably for the best I suppose!
- OK, quested again at Nomad 29 for a Brown Cloak. Fortunately I'm not wearing one so I can deliberately fail this quest.
- Back down to Nomad 26 with 362 HP. I wonder if I'll reach 400 HP by Nomad 30?

23/12/18

- FINALLY MADE IT TO NOMAD 30 WITHOUT BEING QUESTED! Woohoo! Final HP is 397, so not quite the 400 I was hoping for above but that doesn't matter now smile.gif
- Going to start levelling Paladin now for the fighting skills and do this alongside Mage as and when I deem it necessary. Since I'm no longer intending to forfeit any quests (unless I receive a near-impossible one) this will also let me alternate between the guilds if I'm stuck on one guild's quest, to improve my chances of completing it successfully. Also need to hunt for one more Tome of Endurance for Nothrya as I've found very few of those lately.
- Got quested at Paladin level 10 for an Enchanter. Should be easy enough.
- Fulfilled the enchanter quest, levelled up...and got quested again. This time for a zombie.
- Fulfilled the zombie quest and was thankfully not quested again on Paladin level 12. Perhaps the RNG does have some mercy after all?
- Next quest was at level 15 for a Rowdy. At least the Paladin quests are achievable thus far..
- Finally found a Tome of Endurance from a pair of Hiksae in the eastern stud room on DL 1. Turns out to be evil-aligned, surprise sur-friggin'-prise, but I've enough gold to realign to Neutral so it's time to bring Nothrya on board now. The girl's already got maximum Dexterity from the hordes of neutral-aligned Tomes of Agility I've encountered along my dungeon forays and nearly maximum Intelligence also.
- Contrary to my earlier assessment of the Paladin guild offering easy quests, Gnumen pinned without finding one. Switching to Mage until then. Meanwhile Nothrya is progressing quickly and having Gnumen around to heal her minor injuries is making things a lot easier also. Despite the sluggishness of this approach to party building I think I'm going to have a much easier time of it all when I do start venturing into the deeper dungeons.
- Found a Rowdy while levelling up in Mage, thankfully managed to back out before we automatically attacked it as it was hostile. Switched to Paladin and completed the quest, so Gnumen is now a level 16 Paladin. Going to continue levelling in Mage for the time being though for improved spellcasting.
- Nothrya is now Nomad level 9 and has the stats to join both Thief and Healer...question is which one to start off with? Which is the more expensive to join later? I suspect Healer which would mean that's a more logical first choice since the first guild is free...OK Healer it is then. And now I can't afford to join the Thief guild. Oh well, only a couple of million away from it...at least Nothrya has a damage spell now anyway, should make Nomad levelling a little faster (not that it's slow at the moment, quite the contrary).
- Quite astonished at how quickly stronger monsters are falling to this two-person party. Nothrya has Cause Wounds buffered (only SL 1 but still enough to do some reasonable damage) and two groups of 3 Disciples each on DL 2 were falling in just a few rounds, much quicker than if it was Gnumen on his own trying to melee and Dazzle them. Quite funny to press 'F' to fight a friendly monster and just see them disappear immediately from the screen. I'm starting to get a feel for how it all works now, running a party. Also feels like Gnumen is taking Nothrya dungeon-crawling with him even though she's the leader, like he's showing her how it all works and providing support from the back as she hacks and blasts the monsters to death. Cute.
- Nothrya got her first quest at Nomad level 12. Planning to do the same Snakes and Ladders grindfest as Gnumen, but first I want to get her Healer levels up for better spellcasting (she already has Int/Wis of 22/16 so she is more than capable of it).
- Thinking about it, I made the right choice going for Healer first due to the experience requirements and the spellcasting capabilities that Nothrya is gaining. As much as I'm sorely missing Charm of Opening right now, it can wait. Sadly she's just been quested at Healer level 5 for a Hiksae. Oh well, might find one in our extensive dungeon travels now.
- Yay, found one and killed it. Healer quest completed!
- Earned enough gold to join the Thief guild now, but want to get to Healer 7 first before doing so. Not too far away now though. Charm of Opening here I come!
- Typical, pin on Healer level 7 so that I can breeze through level 8 to get the next set of spells and level, only to be quested. It's for a Twisted Dwarf though so should be easy enough.
- It was easy enough, they were in the usual place on DL 1. Healer level 9 is reached, and Nothrya is now a Thief. Charm of Opening here I---oh, I already said that.
- Excellent, finally got Charm of Opening...and Nothrya's Strength is two points too low to cast it. Dangnammit! Always the goal posts are moving ever ahead. Oh well, grind games by their very nature require patience to get the most out of them anyway, so I shall continue along this path and do what needs to be done. Mind you I might as well continue levelling Nomad now though to get the HP up while I wait to find two more Tomes of Might.
- Found a Dalyn's Smile on DL 2...I definitely remember the name but can't for the life of me remember what it's for, nor does the Info screen for the item provide any hints. Oh well, it's 809k in the bank for selling the first one. Next I'll find out it's an amazing and wonderful item I never should have sold, but oh well.
- Reached Nomad level 13 this time before being quested again. On the plus side levelling is ridiculously fast for Nothrya right now, so much so that I've promoted Gnumen to party leader so he can actually make some headway into his Mage levelling! This is good fun though, learning a lot from playing as a two-person party.
- Found a Good-aligned Tome of Might which I chose to re-align to Neutral for Nothrya. Completely forgot in the process that that was what was holding me back from casting CoO. Oh well, just cast it for my very first time with these characters. Got me 6.8k gold. Impressive. I remember when I was still new to Mordor and I thought there was something majorly special about Magically Locked chests. So one day I saved up enough to buy a Key of Opening from the store, and went and found one of these Magically Locked™ chests. Oh how disappointed I was to see how little it was worth for what I'd paid for the key. Oh well, live and learn.
- Got Nothrya to Nomad level 20 and also picked up my first White Sash so I'll have to remember to actually use that when I encounter some tougher combats. Until then, I think I'm all Mordored out for one day smile.gif

Posted by: Roland Dec 24 2018, 06:16 PM

Dalyn's Smile fills your Artifact slot - and does nothing else whatsoever.

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 24 2018, 09:51 PM

Fair enough, I'll just treat it as selling fodder in the future then smile.gif

Posted by: fischsemmel Dec 24 2018, 10:09 PM

When do you think you'll end up with the full party adventuring together?

I think you're probably doing a good thing with the quest forfeits for you guys. When I played a non-legacy party, I followed optimal leveling route as best I could but I don't think any of my characters were at max con by the time they finished it, and I didn't forfeit any quests. They ended up doing fine on the bottom level of the dungeon with around 700 hp each. I think the full party spreads out attacks enough that you don't lose someone too often. But I seem to recall having issues with the insta-death monsters you find on earlier levels when I first ran into them because of the relatively low HP numbers my guys had.

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 24 2018, 11:32 PM

As soon as either of the other two earn maximum Con I'll add them to my party and focus on their levelling that way smile.gif Mythraxa has already reached maximum dexterity so I know now any good-aligned Tomes of Agility can be sold to the store for extra profit. Unfortunately Tomes of Endurance are dropping quite rarely for me at the moment so I'm getting their Con up quite slowly so far.

I must admit I am finding already that with the two party members they're both getting hit less frequently than they would solo due to having only half the chances to actually be hit in the first place.

To be fair I probably could just add them both to the party now and have an easy enough time of it, but with all the time I've invested so far into building up Gnumen and Nothrya to get maximum HP it feels like a waste to not then do the same for the remaining two.

And now for the final Christmas Eve update:

24/12/18

- Decided now the most efficient setup for the current levels is to make Nothrya party leader again and have her cast Cause Wounds as her combat default, with Gnumen in second position casting Dazzle. That way it weakens up the stronger enemies making Dazzle more likely to succeed and thus hopefully speeding up his level progression. Saying that, it no longer feels like Gnumen is guiding Nothrya through the dungeon like before. Now they wander the halls as equals. How quickly she has grown :fatherlypride:.
- Thought it would be a nice idea to try out a stud room on DL 2. Encountered three Munsae. OUCH! Draining hurts :'(. Nothrya lost a point of Con and Gnumen lost a point of Dexterity. Ended up wasting money buying and realigning evil tomes to fix this.
- Nothrya has now reached Nomad level 30 with a final HP of 378. Which of course isn't the end of it because Osiris can join the Wizard guild. Still need three more neutral Tomes of Insight first though before she can join them. In the meantime levelling Healer so that will probably mean earning about twenty tomes in the time it takes to reach level 30.
- Got the Resist Drain spell now, albeit for almost a third of Nothrya's SP. Still, if it allows forays into DL 3 then I'll make the sacrifice.
- Just made my first foray into DL 3 with these characters using the shortest route I know (SW stairs down to DL2, then up through the secret door to the middle stairs down to DL3). Already got some of the level mapped out from my non-legacy Giant Grogbog's excursions but there's a great deal to be explored yet. Anyway, descend into the first room and we encounter ants. Gnumen pins almost straight away. Next time I should keep an eye on experience to pin for both characters instead of manipulating my party structure to save 60 SP on Resist Draining only to then return straight back to town again. Oh well, it's not a big deal.
- Another foray into DL3 with draining resistance. Encountered a pair of Munsae and they fell to our opening blast of spells. That'll teach 'em. Also got pinned at Healer 11 because Nothrya needs to kill an Orc. Hmm...time for some Thief levels in the meantime. Also Gnumen got Mage quested twice in a row, first for a Kyu Yetro (easy) and next for a Padded Leather Armour. Well, already got one in the inventory so that's handy!
- Curses! Found a pair of Orcs on DL 1 and killed them as a Thief. Gah!
- Excellent, found a pair of Orcs leading a group of 10 slaves. This time successfully backed away and re-acquainted with Healer before going back to slay them. Gnumen had a little cannibalistic feast on the Dazzled slaves.
- Up to Healer 13 for Nothrya which gives her Raise Dead and Restoration, neither of which she can cast yet due to stat requirements. Same goes for Cause Fatal Wounds. Love how Healers are trained mass murderers in this game. Going to back to Thief for a little bit though just to ramp up the thieving ability and reduce Charm of Opening's spell cost.
- Explored some more DL3. Suddenly thought to cast Feather Essence while I was there and I'm glad I did. Two pits in a corridor followed by a "There is a chute here. Select TAKE to use" message. OH HOW GLAD I AM THAT LEVITATION DID NOT FAIL!
- Obliterated a group of ants and earned 6,666 gold for it. The devil smiles upon me this Christmas Eve.
- Mage Questmaster at level 29 has quested Gnumen for a set of Iron Bracers. The only set I've ever found are currently equipped by him. Now I'm sad. Still, I'd rather accept and lose the 3/3 A/D and point of Strength than have to climb my way back up the Mage levels again. They take long enough as it is. So that's what I did. I accepted. Now I'm sulking by levelling in Paladin for a while.
- A footpad on DL1 offered to join. I melee attacked with Nothrya and she Backstabbed it. How fitting.
- Well that's about it for now. Best get myself to bed before Santa breaks into my home and unloads his sack all over my bed. Just kidding, I live alone so he won't visit me tonight. He's a strange one, that man.

Anywho, hope you all enjoy the festive season and may it be full of Mordor!

Posted by: fischsemmel Dec 25 2018, 02:00 AM

laugh.gif. I seem to recall using like half of my sorcerer's spell points every trip into the dungeon just casting resists and such. One of my favorite things of going solo is NOT casting 25 buffs every time I walk down the first steps.

Eventually though you'll be able to blast through the first two floors with melee alone instantly resolving because of your targeting your back character, and farm up enough tomes and potions and aards that it's no big deal to get drained some.

Posted by: Mordion Dec 25 2018, 05:53 PM

QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Dec 24 2018, 09:00 PM) *
laugh.gif. I seem to recall using like half of my sorcerer's spell points every trip into the dungeon just casting resists and such. One of my favorite things of going solo is NOT casting 25 buffs every time I walk down the first steps.

Eventually though you'll be able to blast through the first two floors with melee alone instantly resolving because of your targeting your back character, and farm up enough tomes and potions and aards that it's no big deal to get drained some.


There’s a nice loop you can take soon. Go to the goblin goblin shaman on 3 for an Aard and then taking the nearby chute to level 5 which is close to a cockatrice lair for a second chance at an aard then fight your way to the twisted elf for rings then go up the stairs near the flame dragon on 4 for amulets and back to the surface.

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 25 2018, 06:34 PM

QUOTE (Mordion @ Dec 25 2018, 05:53 PM) *
There’s a nice loop you can take soon. Go to the goblin goblin shaman on 3 for an Aard and then taking the nearby chute to level 5 which is close to a cockatrice lair for a second chance at an aard then fight your way to the twisted elf for rings then go up the stairs near the flame dragon on 4 for amulets and back to the surface.


Excellent, thanks, that's really good to know smile.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 26 2018, 11:09 PM

26/12/18

- Not a lot new to report since the 24th. Nothrya got quested at Thief level 27 for an Amulet of Life, which I've never seen before in my...life. Questing as Healer right now as I don't fancy drudging back through some Thief levels for an amulet I've yet to find. Who knows, perhaps it will turn up during the Healer levelling? Certainly happy with Nothrya's thieving skills at the moment anyway, opening almost every chest without fail and Charm of Opening only costs 12 SP now.
- Gnumen pinned early while exploring DL 2 just now. Quite surprising, Nothrya normally pins multiple times before Gnumen pins. That's why she likes him so much as a dungeon crawling companion. She appreciates a man who lets her pin first nearly every time.
- As I'm going for another DL 2 run it suddenly occurs to me how wrong that sounds considering in previous posts I implied he had a fatherly role towards Nothrya during her early levels. I put this to Nothrya and she just gave me a sly grin. I regret nothing.
- Got Gnumen to Paladin 27, which is only 2 away now from equalising with Mage. Thinking about giving him Sorcerer levels as well, because having Dazzle auto-cast against weak and injured mobs is effective but it would be nice to give him some damage spells that work against stronger and boss mobs also. He currently has 24.4 million gold and has the stats to join all remaining guilds (Seeker, Scavenger and Sorcerer. All the 'S' guilds a Good Gnome can join) so I think it's worth doing.
- Went to the slaves lair on DL 2 and decided to charm the Slavers this time around. Thinking I should do the same every time I encounter dragons on DL 3, should net a nice bit of gold in the Confinement. Trouble is doing all the necessary keystrokes in time to target the correct group and cast the right spell, but with a bit of practice it will be doable.
- Gnumen as a level 28 Paladin got quested to kill a Footpad. Truly a noble quest for a Paladin. I mean, slaying evil dragons and rescuing damsels in distress is just so clichéd, you know? Murdering common thieves, now THAT is what being a mighty hero is all about.
- Just had exactly what I said about dragons - saw some but realised too late, by the time I pressed the keys to back out Gnumen had already Dazzled them. Oh well, I never wanted a Firagon for a pet anyway, despite all written evidence to the contrary.
- Oh well, charmed some Goblin Guards (had also charmed some Dwarves but they died in the Goblin Guards fight. Not sure why I didn't take them back to the Confinement straight away really. Oh well). Also got a Good-aligned Steel Dagger so that's a weapon upgrade for Gnumen.
- Just got my first Aard of Being! Hmm...sell it for 12 million or use it on Gnumen? (it's good-aligned). To meet his current spell requirements only requires a few individual stat increases so I think it will be more economical to sell it and use the cash for bulk tome realignment, especially since a couple of stats are maxed out already. Sell it is then.
- Woohoo! Charmed the Goblin Lord's Pelagons. They broke a few binding levels so it was a quick race back to the surface then, but got there without either one leaving so that's good. First one sold for 1.1 million but I didn't check how much it cost to identify them so profit is likely only a few hundred thousand. Still fun though.
- Nothrya just reached Healer level 23 so now has Resurrect and Word of Death. Talk about mixed messages, she kills you with one spell and brings you back to life with the other. Make up your mind Nothrya! You can't keep pottering about indecisively all your li-*dies to Word of Death* ... *gets Resurrected*. What was I talking about? Oh yes, Resurrect. Great spell Nothrya, glad you learned it.

And that's about it for me now! Time for bed as I've got work in the morning. Hope you all had a good festive period whatever you were doing!

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 28 2018, 10:54 PM

28/12/18 Part 1

- Just found my first ever Padded Leather Cap from a DL 2 mob on DL 3. Can't even remember what the mob was now, think it was a Charmer. That would have been very handy if I had it when I was quested for the bloody thing all that time ago...was that even for a legacy character? I can't remember now. I have an excellent memory.
- In other news, thanks to repeated farming of certain lairs on DLs 2 and 3, I have around 60 million gold between the two characters now. For this reason I've decided it's time to start realigning all the Evil tomes I've been storing up and start to bring up the Int and Wis of both characters now to ensure they can cast every spell. And to improve their max SP of course.
- Started levelling Gnumen in Sorcerer now to make him a bit more versatile. Also want to bring Brundyath on board soon, so need to start harvesting Tomes of Endurance to get him ready.
- Actually, scratch that - I've got two evil Tomes of Endurance in Gnumen's bank and that's all Brundyath needs for maximum Constitution now. Welcome aboard, Brundyath. He is of course immediately promoted to leader, following the ancient precept of Rulership by How Big A Bashing Stick You Can Wield. Nothrya will continue to be second in command until Gnumen's Sorcerer spells are cheap and powerful enough to replace Dazzle as his main spell.
- Only as I'm going through the spells to see how Gnumen's Sorcerer spells are getting on, do I realise that the top two Mind spells are damage dealing (unlike the first two which are basically Kill spells). Oh well, still no harm in diversifying his magical portfolio.
- Now that Brundath is a level 6 Warrior with 68 HP I'm sending him out solo for a bit just to accelerate his experience gain. Once I'm comfortable he can survive DL 2 leading the party I'll bring him back in.
- Now that Brundath is a level 8 Warrior with 88 HP I'm bringing back into the party because I'm bored of grinding DL 1 for his sake. I'm sure with Nothrya and Gnumen backing him up he'll survive DL 2 easily enough.
- Nothrya has reached Healer 30, which means if she's to continue the Optimal Levelling Route™ then she needs to level Wizard up to 41 next. Oh well, at least she'll get some Kill and Mind spells for her troubles.
- I'm at the point now where I want to bring Mythraxa on board, so I think I'll just need to do some Tome of Endurance grinding on Level 1. Either that or fork out stupid money for Potions of Fitness previously sold to the store. Depends how impatient I am, I guess. We'll leave that decision for another time though. Need to get around to procrastinating first.

28/12/18 Part 2

- Having taken a break to watch a film, I've decided that since gold was mainly a priority for acquiring/realigning tomes and whatnot, I shouldn't be afraid to pool together the party's gold to buy and realign some potions for Mythraxa to join us. The same methods that quickly increased my wealth can be performed again (assuming the bloody monsters actually appear in their lairs, hate it when they don't) so it's not like I'd be crippling my party's development as a result of it. Nevertheless I shall spend some time grinding DLs 1 and 2 for tomes and, if I'm still lacking by the end of this session, I shall take the expensive way out.
- Excellent, on my second run of DL 1 found a Potion of Fitness followed by a Tome of Endurance. I will realign them both if necessary and bring Mythraxa on board. It's time to get this party started, in a manner of speaking.
- Ouch, that was painful spending around 8 million gold to realign those two items. They just had to be Evil aligned didn't they? DIDN'T THEY?! *quivers with impotent rage*
- And then I find out that Mythraxa was only one point away from maximum Constitution. AND I USED THE POTION INSTEAD OF THE TOME! Why oh why do I make these silly little decisions that have little to no impact in the long run? Oh well, at least she's not four weeks older as a result of it...because we all know how short-lived Elves are in this game.
- Only downside to rushing Mythraxa into our party is she doesn't yet have the Int or Wis to join any of the magic guilds, so she's currently levelling slower than she could due to lack of access to spells. We'll get there soon enough though, once the party's gold has recovered a bit. As soon as she's hardy enough we'll start grinding DLs 2 and 3 again anyway.
- Decided 55 HP was enough for DL 2 seeing as she has three experienced party members behind her. She's doing OK so far.
- Just invested the entirety of the party's gold into buying four evil Tomes of Insight and two neutral Tomes of Learning, then realigning them to good for Mythraxa's benefit. The party now has 407k gold left. This had better pay off. Which I already know it will so that's a silly comment to write really. Not unlike half of what I've written on this thread thus far then.
- Anyway, the new Int/Wis of 12 and 17 allow her to join the Mage's guild only, so that's what I've gone for as her first guild. At least she'll have Nerve Blank to play with on DL 1, should make her ascend the levels a bit quicker.

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 29 2018, 04:52 PM

29/12/18 Part 1

- Now that the full party is assembled I need to start setting objectives for what I actually want to achieve with them. I think dungeon exploration is the main goal for me right now moreso than levelling the characters. Obviously the two go hand in hand, but the more I can explore right now, the better.
- It's only now that he's Warrior level 21 that I realise I've been doing Brundath a disservice by completing all the quests he's received thus far. Annoying, but what can you do? Still, he seems to be coping alright with this 242 HP so far I suppose. And as I've already been advised, it's not really necessary to apply the OLR for a four-character party. Just a luxury, in truth.
- OK, just got a Padded Leather Cap quest for Brundath. Although there are two in the store, I will fail this quest to get some additional HP.
- Walked into a teleporter while exploring the remainder of DL 3 and the whole party got dispersed. Ordered them all to regroup at the central staircase to DL 2. Brundath encountered Nothrya along the way and everyone else made it back there safely. Nothrya and Gnumen had a slightly overexcitable reunion which disgusted one party member and aroused the other. Nothrya thought she heard some sniggering from the monsters in the neighbouring room.
- And now the party just got teleported into an unexplored part of a lower dungeon level and promptly walked right into two more. Now in a room in DL 5 just pacing back and forth endlessly trying to figure out where we are...
- ...which, evidently, isn't working. Hmm...this could get difficult.
- "Gnumen" detects Stairs Down ahead of the party. Yes, that couldn't make things any worse, could it?
- OK, out of desperation I cheated and looked up the map of DL 5. From where I've worked out I currently am, there is no easy path back up to DL 4. First ever party wipe coming up!
- AND RIGHT AFTER I TYPE THAT THE AUTOMAP SUDDENLY FIGURES OUT WHERE I AM!
- Brundath has died. Mythraxa is now carrying his corpse.
- Mythraxa has died. Their corpses are both carried.
- Made it back to DL 4 after searching for the wrong set of stairs initially. SP are running low. Can we make it?
- Nothrya's SP is now officially zero. Planning a panic run now.
- Made it to DL 3! Danger's not over yet though, Gnumen is close to death. Put Nothrya in front as she still has 237/378 HP.
- Made it back safe! Woohoo! Now to do selective healing to minimise aging...or I could just bring Gundya v2 down from the city! Excellent.
- Nothrya and Gnumen healed without aging. Now for the raising...
- Both characters successfully raised without losing any constitution. I have no regrets about cheating with the maps there. Just glad that I avoided a party wipe.
- On the plus side, found two White Cloaks which offer Drain Resistance on DL 4 or 5, so that's a bit of SP I can save when venturing to DL 3 and beyond now...or is it? Resistances from items only got to 90%, not 95%. Guess it depends on how deep one delves?

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 29 2018, 06:52 PM

29/12/18 Part 2

- The whole party got teleported to DL 5 again, this time while actively exploring DL 4. Mythraxa died. Fortunately I'm just outside the area I was able to map previously, so I can at least do a panic run back to DL 4 now.
- Another successful raise. Also turns out the DL 5 room we landed in was a stud room. I think this was probably the same room I got teleported into the first time around after I was teleported off DL 3 unexpectedly. On both occasions the party remained together so it must be a fixed location teleport rather than a random one. Unless it's the EXTREMELY improbable scenario of a completely random teleporter sending all four members of my party to exactly the same location again. But I doubt it.
- Nothrya just triggered my first ever experience of a Teleporter trap on DL 4. Now to see where she's disappeared off to. Ah, right on the other side of the dungeon amidst a load of Cutpurses who proceeded to steal her entire purse of ~100k gold. Curse them!
- Nothrya's back now.

Posted by: korexus Dec 29 2018, 10:09 PM

QUOTE (BLauritson @ Dec 29 2018, 06:52 PM) *
29/12/18 Part 2

Also turns out the DL 5 room we landed in was a stud room. I think this was probably the same room I got teleported into the first time around after I was teleported off DL 3 unexpectedly. On both occasions the party remained together so it must be a fixed location teleport rather than a random one. Unless it's the EXTREMELY improbable scenario of a completely random teleporter sending all four members of my party to exactly the same location again. But I doubt it.


Random teleporters are always to the same floor. If you've gone to a different floor, it's to a fixed place and, if you can remember it, may help with future exploration.


korexus.

Posted by: BLauritson Dec 29 2018, 10:30 PM

Thanks korexus, that's useful to know. I've avoided certain teleporters like the plague until now (unless I already knew of its fixed destination), but at least now once I have a DL fully mapped I can feel a bit more confident trying them.

Posted by: Mordion Dec 30 2018, 11:42 PM

QUOTE (korexus @ Dec 29 2018, 05:09 PM) *
Random teleporters are always to the same floor. If you've gone to a different floor, it's to a fixed place and, if you can remember it, may help with future exploration.


korexus.


Random teleporters also teleport everyone in the party to a different place. If you teleport as a group it's a fixed teleporter.

Posted by: fischsemmel Dec 31 2018, 02:06 PM

QUOTE (Mordion @ Dec 30 2018, 06:42 PM) *
Random teleporters also teleport everyone in the party to a different place. If you teleport as a group it's a fixed teleporter.


God. Reading about random teleporters and parties is giving me PTSD. That's a damn good reason to play a solo character. God, it sucked hitting those things.

Posted by: BLauritson Jan 10 2019, 11:19 PM

Well admittedly I haven't been making time to continue with this party recently, but I did have a horrible dream last night that I ventured down to DL 6 with the party and realised to my horror that I had forgotten to cast Resist Drain on all the members, as Mythraxa suddenly got drained down to about 50 max HP. I was stunned and found myself wondering what to do, whether to write off that character and continue without her or create a new one.

Hopefully when I do resume this party that dream will remind me of the dangers before I venture too far below!

It's not the first time I've dreamt of Mordor, either. A few years ago I remember dreaming that I was actually in the Mordor dungeon itself, that I took a set of stairs down to DL 3 and was straight inside a water cavern. I can still picture it in my mind now. I was trying to work out how to get back to the surface, but that's all I remember of that dream. That might have been all there was to it.

Well, if and when I do get back to it I shall resume my previous updates!

Posted by: Nudibranch Jan 11 2019, 01:19 AM

If that doesn't count as a "you know when you're playing too much Mordor", I don't know what does. crazy.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Jan 11 2019, 08:25 PM

Or perhaps it means I'm not playing it enough? biggrin.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Feb 2 2019, 04:42 PM

02/02/19

As much as it pains me to say so, I had become weary of Mordor after December's heavy focus on it, and I realise now it was due to the tedium of running a full party. More specifically, of preparing them for a dungeon run by casting all the resistances, which will inevitably be relatively short as one of them will soon pin anyway.

With that in mind, I've decided to focus for the time being just on Nothrya, the Osiri. She is currently levelling in Wizard to take advantage of the extra hits up to level 41 and is managing perfectly fine as a solo character at the moment.

I think eventually I'll run Gnumen (the Good Gnome Mage©) and Nothrya as a duo but for the time being I'm enjoying the solo runs with Nothrya. Speaking of which...

- On the way to DL 2, a Gredlan Rogue dropped a Robe of Remorse and a Tome of Lies. Can't help but feel there's a lesson in that somewhere.
- Decided to start making serious inroads to map DL 4, and one room away from the stairs encountered a group of Giant Leeches. YEEEEEE-OUCH! Good thing Nothrya has 400 HP right now, they're stripping nearly half of that off her just in one battle round! Leprosy they're immune to and Cause Heavy Wounds is just scratching them, so I need to find another way to kill them. Sadly I've not got any Sorcerer levels yet so Poison and Leprosy are my only non-Magic damaging spells. I think I'll have to leave them for now and get some Sorcerer levels first. I was thinking of doing so anyway to get the Resist costs down more quickly. Perhaps that will be best.
- At Sorcerer 11, with Thunder Bolt in my spellbook and vengeance in my heart, I ventured down to DL 4 with naught but Feather Essence cast upon me. I boldly stepped into the leech room again. FRY YOU EVIL CRITTERS, FRY! And fry they did...well, most of them. Escaped after 2 combat rounds with 47/400 HP. Three more trips later (and plenty of healing from Gundya v2) I finally bested the vile critters. Not an experience I'd like to repeat any time soon.
- Not a lot else to report really - levelling is relatively quick as Poison and Leprosy are already powerful enough to kill most DL 2 and DL 3 monsters with a single casting, and the resistances are now down to much more economical levels. Casting Resist Drain, Resist Paralysis and Feather Essence costs a grand total of 26 SP now, which is plenty low enough for a decent run on DL 3 before running out of SP and/or XP.

Posted by: Nudibranch Feb 3 2019, 04:26 AM

As if real-world leeches weren't bad enough... Damn you, David Allen. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Feb 3 2019, 07:06 PM

03/02/19

Started mapping out DL 5 even though DL 4 isn't fully mapped out yet, but I seem to be handling myself OK.

...or at least I was until I decided to chance a teleporter which I'd already spotted and wound up on DL 6. With 2 SP left. Still healthy though, so let's find my way back to the stairs! Fortunately I can see a set of stairs down in DL 5 so I'm trying to work my way back to there now. Got a couple of White Sashes (had three until one got stolen, but that's good because having it stolen reminded me I actually had some to use). So yes, currently White Sashing everything in my way which is quite entertaining. Or at least it was until it ran out of charges and I remembered that one needs to equip a new sash to use it. And sashes are cursed. And cursed items aren't unequippable in the dungeon...

...anywho, despite poison coursing through her veins, Nothrya made it back to the safe room in DL 1 with 51/400 HP to spare. Now for the healing malarkey.

Later on I went back down to DL 6 again to open a locked chest that I lacked the mana for on my first visit there. Currently guild level 33 in Sorcerer and Wizard, 30 in Healer and 27 in Thief. Alas the Thief has a stupidly difficult item quest so I've forfeited and gone back to 24, so going to raise that up a bit to at least 30 and then continue with Wizard up to 41 again. Not sure which guild I'll level after that. Seeker maybe?

Posted by: puma Feb 8 2019, 06:08 PM

QUOTE (BLauritson @ Feb 3 2019, 01:06 PM) *
03/02/19

Started mapping out DL 5 even though DL 4 isn't fully mapped out yet, but I seem to be handling myself OK.

...or at least I was until I decided to chance a teleporter which I'd already spotted and wound up on DL 6. With 2 SP left. Still healthy though, so let's find my way back to the stairs! Fortunately I can see a set of stairs down in DL 5 so I'm trying to work my way back to there now. Got a couple of White Sashes (had three until one got stolen, but that's good because having it stolen reminded me I actually had some to use). So yes, currently White Sashing everything in my way which is quite entertaining. Or at least it was until it ran out of charges and I remembered that one needs to equip a new sash to use it. And sashes are cursed. And cursed items aren't unequippable in the dungeon...

...anywho, despite poison coursing through her veins, Nothrya made it back to the safe room in DL 1 with 51/400 HP to spare. Now for the healing malarkey.

Later on I went back down to DL 6 again to open a locked chest that I lacked the mana for on my first visit there. Currently guild level 33 in Sorcerer and Wizard, 30 in Healer and 27 in Thief. Alas the Thief has a stupidly difficult item quest so I've forfeited and gone back to 24, so going to raise that up a bit to at least 30 and then continue with Wizard up to 41 again. Not sure which guild I'll level after that. Seeker maybe?



Those close calls and a dash back to the city always make for a good time...providing you make it!

From the guilds you mentioned, Seeker is by far the best for melee fighting which seems to be pretty important for a solo. But it seems to me, leveling Seeker to a high level makes Wizard obsolete (unless you want a few extra hits by going to 41). I think Sorcerer and Healer have a lot of redundancy as well, so I would go Seeker/Healer/Thief. But that's just me, and I've never seriously played a solo.

Posted by: BLauritson Feb 8 2019, 06:30 PM

Thanks puma, I must admit now that I've got Nothrya to Wizard 41 (achieved just last night, final HP 456) I was thinking about Seeker.

Sorcerer does have the elemental damage spells (Fire/Cold/Electric) which I don't think Healer has, so I'll probably continue levelling up Sorcerer for that reason also. I think the resistances are earned at a lower level also so that definitely helps, as with a solo character the spell points tend to go down pretty quickly even when your main combat spell only costs 2 SP to cast smile.gif

So far I'm finding that Nothrya is easily holding her own on DLs 4 and 5 now, thanks in large part to the high maximum HP and the array of reasonably strong spells at her disposal (Poison and Leprosy are powerful against most creatures).

Annoyingly she did get drained by a Munsae despite having Resist Drain cast, although thankfully it was a stat drain (1 point each of Con and Cha) and not an HP drain, since stat drains are much easier to rectify.

On the plus side, on her first foray into DLs 4-5 she encountered two friendly Geeshi that offered to join. Straight back to the city and to the confinement they were sold. Next trip down, 3 friendly Firagons offering to join! Same routine again biggrin.gif

Otherwise I'm finding that levelling is nice and quick on DLs 4 and 5, albeit usually requiring two or three runs due to running out of SP first!

Posted by: BLauritson Feb 8 2019, 07:30 PM

And with just under an hour's work, Nothrya is now Seeker level 25.

Love how ridiculously quickly one can level up in the early stages of a new guild when you can easily dominate DL 4 and 5.

In the process I've mapped out about 3/4 of DL 5 now, after which it's on to 6. Not sure what guild I'll focus on after I've got Seeker up to 30ish...need to think about what I want to achieve next.

Posted by: BLauritson Feb 8 2019, 10:58 PM

And that's it for tonight, having resumed the session after a break this evening.

Currently level 40 in Sorcerer, decided to level that up for the time being in order to improve the strength of the Element spells as well as reducing their costs. Got DL 5 all mapped out and still finding it poses little challenge as long as Nothrya has plenty of SP to spare, so going to start venturing to DL 6 now and see how I get on there.

Some highlights of this most recent run include finding two Rods of Ultimate Power consecutively on DL 5. Open one chest, Rod of Ultimate Power. Two rooms later, open another chest, Rod of Ultimate Power. Even more special considering this is the first time I've ever encountered a Rod of Ultimate Power. Slightly underwhelmed when I identified the Rod of Ultimate Power and saw what constituted its "Ultimate Power" but at least I made a nice bit of gold from selling the Rods of Ultimate Power. Rod of Ultimate Power Rod of Ultimate Power Rod of Ultimate Power. There, it's out of my system now. Rod of Ultimate Power*.

Another highlight was encountering the Twisted Elf and looting some very nice bracers from him. Sadly they're far too high level for me to equip at this stage, but again, money. I seem to be a tad avaricious in this game.

One lowlight was encountering my first Purple Slime and having my Gloves of Strength destroyed. I was blasting it with Pillar of Fire, but then I got paralysed. Paralysed?! But I cast my resistances, it will be over soon. But it kept spitting at me, and the paralysis wouldn't wear off. What was going on? Let's check the Resistances tab..."Oh fiddlesticks†, I must have missed that one!". Fortunately despite being an immobile target the Purple Slime had great difficulty hitting me and its spits were only doing token levels of damage, so in the end the paralysis eventually did wear off and I was able to blast it to hell with the very fires of that same realm.

* I manually typed out Rod of Ultimate Power on every instance there. Not a single copy nor paste involved. I can be incredibly stubborn like that sometimes.
† I didn't actually say fiddlesticks. It was something else beginning with 'f'. Something slightly less polite.

Posted by: MythrilZenith Feb 9 2019, 07:09 AM

Good Female Elf - Mythraxa
I don't suppose my one weird run has anything to do with that name.. think.gif

Anyway, looks like you're doing pretty well all things considered! Big parties are fun because you get to go down a lot deeper than you normally would, but that also means you're playing with fire since one wrong move and everything falls apart when you're that deep. Plus, you NEED to be moving deeper in order to get any reasonable exp gain. Just another step in the world of trade-offs that is Mordor.

Posted by: BLauritson Feb 9 2019, 08:22 AM

hehe, I'm sure subconsciously it had an influence smile.gif

Thanks - it was fun running the four character party for a while but by the same token I did find it a bit frustrating trying to manage them all individually and dealing with the additional risks such as running into an undiscovered teleporter (since not all of them were strong enough to survive individually at those depths). On the other hand it's great how flexible the party structure can be in Mordor, so at any time I can happily band any number of them together again for a delve, especially once I have the lower dungeon levels better mapped out.

There have been quite a few times recently when playing Nothrya solo, I've thought about how nice it would be to be able to charm some of the DL 4/5 monsters and bring them back to the confinement. Gnumen would be the perfect companion for precisely that, but currently I'm keeping him as an emergency healer at the city stairs for when Nothrya's run out of SP. Then again by the same token I could always have them switch places and do solo runs with Gnumen while Nothrya hangs back for healing services. Gnumen already has 399 HP so he's hardy enough to withstand a few hits biggrin.gif

Posted by: Nudibranch Feb 9 2019, 08:42 PM

Rods of Ultimate Power are good against zBrats and other massing harassers.

Posted by: BLauritson Feb 9 2019, 09:54 PM

That's good to know, thanks smile.gif What dungeon level do Z'Brats start appearing on?

As for my latest exploits with Nothrya, reached Sorcerer 50 already and also rediscovered the Minotaur's lair (it was one of the places I used to visit when I played Mordor regularly in my teens). Took two trips to kill him; the second one had a clear path all the way there so it was just a case of trading blows, running out to cast Restoration and going back in again until he was eventually killed. Got an Adamantite Battle Axe for my troubles.

Also discovered a set of rooms leading up to a laired monster which were guarded by Reptile Servants or something similarly named. Anticipating it might be a medusa or something like that, I decided to head back to the city to refresh my SP, then made sure to case Resist Stone at the start of my journey (Osiri have 90% natural resistance to it but wanted to make sure). So I made my way back there, entered the lair...and it was a friggin' troll. I hate it when laired monsters don't appear >:{

Oh well, I've got about 60% of DL 6 mapped out now and although I'm not quite dominating it as such, the Sorcerer spells I have are powerful enough to clear out most rooms (also there seem to be a real abundance of thieving monsters on DL 6, much more so than the other levels) so as long as I've plenty of SP left I'm making good progress.

Incidentally at one point I found my melee weapon was ineffective against some monsters on DL 6 and I was concerned that the Steel Dagger was ineffective at this level already, and wondered how long it would be before I found an Adamantite Dagger. Turns out I wasn't wielding the Steel Dagger at all, it was the Silver Cross. Change to the dagger and I can hit the damn things again. Always a bonus when one's continued existence depends on being able to hit things.

Posted by: Roland Feb 10 2019, 02:40 AM

QUOTE (BLauritson @ Feb 9 2019, 04:54 PM) *
That's good to know, thanks smile.gif What dungeon level do Z'Brats start appearing on?

ZBrats first appear on level 6. They have a lair towards the northeast corner of 6, but they're otherwise very rare.

Posted by: BLauritson Feb 10 2019, 08:49 AM

Thanks Roland smile.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Feb 10 2019, 11:34 AM

Highlights from this morning's run:

- Found my first ever Staff of Alton from the Goblin Shaman on DL 3. And when I say "first ever" I really mean it - can't remember ever finding this when I used to play Mordor in my teens. Found it inferior to my current weaponry though so sold it.
- Discovered ZBrats for the first time on a room in DL 6. Curious how the game hides their numbers, makes me understand now why these swarm-clearing spells (and artefacts that cast them) are so popular. They went down eventually from continued Leprosy castings but I suffered a fair bit of damage in the process.
- Finally made good on my previous intention to find what was at the end of the Snake Servants corridor of rooms, and was pleased to see that my presumption was correct in that Medusa was the boss there. Many Leprosy castings later (plus a few thrown back at me, luckily I've got Unicorn Horn equipped so they did very little damage) and Medusa was slain. Got a Gem of Healing for my troubles. Considered keeping it for emergencies but given how often I forget to use the White Sash I've been carrying around with me I decided to sell it in the end.

Lowlights from this morning's run:

- Encountered 3 Blue Pelagons and 2 Pelagons in an antimagic room. Ouchie! Those breath attacks are really painful. It's bad enough when I can Leprosy-blast them and only suffer 2-4 rounds of breath attacks, but that one stripped a good 300 HP from me or so. Fortunately still had plenty of SP left for healing.

Speaking of healing, after reaching Sorcerer 53 I'm now going back to Healer to reduce the cost of the Heal and Restoration spells as I'm finding I need to cast those more and more often now that I'm mapping out DL 6. Minor Heal just doesn't cut it when you've got 200+ HP to recover.

Posted by: BLauritson Feb 10 2019, 06:27 PM

Well, I've now officially gone deeper than I've ever done before.

Haven't got DL 6 fully mapped out yet, but there's a couple of teleporters in the northwest. One of them just teleported me elsewhere on DL 6, so I decided to go back and use the other one just so it would count as explored on my automap.

Oh dear, DL 8 eh?

Well, surprisingly this is Nothrya's first ever death. I kind of knew there wasn't much hope given that barely any of DL 7 is mapped yet, so I couldn't even blindly run in the general direction of stairs up, as I don't even know where they would be. So it was just a case of move around and hope for the best...sort of.

Long story short, I'm manoeuvring around a similarly-structured area from where I was teleported from and this happens.



Didn't even get to see the damn thing. I've survived Nastrums, Sistrums...but apparently a Grostrum is just too much.

Oh well, time to load Gnumen and pay for some rescuers in the hope that I won't have such a ridiculously long wait for rescue. Not that age is a problem right now but I don't want to get anywhere close to the point that it will be tongue.gif

EDIT: Success! Nothrya was returned and successfully restored to flesh. Now to give Gnumen some extra gold in case something silly like this happens again!

EDIT 2: As if the RNG were seeking to compensate me for my misfortune, on my next run down the Goblin Shamen of DL 3 dropped two Aards of Being. That's nice of them.

EDIT 3: Half an hour after the above mishap and I now have DL 6 fully mapped out. Let's see what dangers DL 7 brings.

Posted by: BLauritson Feb 10 2019, 07:47 PM

Well, my first impression of DL 7 is that is a most cunning level. Walked right into a same-level teleporter with low SP and increasingly low HP, but thankfully was able to rush a path back to the stairs up and save myself.

The dungeon tried to trick me into walking into another teleporter by way of a Face South square, but thankfully the seeker levels earlier gained were enough to spot the teleporter and for once I was smart enough to actually stop myself before just walking on anyway. Dread to think where that would take me, wouldn't surprise me if I wound up on DL 10 or somewhere equally suicidal.

Otherwise though, once again Nothrya is holding her own against a lot of the enemies there. Not dominating the level by any means, but certainly gaining a fair wad of experience relatively quickly.

Compared to how I used to play Mordor in my teens, I know for a fact I'm playing a lot smarter than I used to back then. I was always too cautious I think, whereas now I'm taking much bigger risks than I used to and also placing more emphasis on exploring. I think though once I've mapped out DL 7 I'm going to roam DLs 6 and 7 for a while and use them as experience farms. I'm not going back to DL 8 again until the Teleport spell is cheap enough to cast in a pinch.

Anyway, Healer level is now 45 which is enough for one session methinks. Certainly encouraging to be gaining levels so quickly, I've always wanted to beat this game but the way I played it back in my teens just wasn't aggressive enough to get there. Got to be bold if you want to advance!

Posted by: puma Feb 10 2019, 08:22 PM

DL 7 is my favorite for roaming in the mid game. The water monsters are a great XP source that your Leprosy spell will generally take out quickly, and the laired bosses on 7 are some of the best for useful items. Whenever I'm leveling secondary guilds, DL 7 is where I spend the most time.

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 14 2019, 08:00 PM

Well, after seeing so many entertaining updates on everyone else's parties I've finally decided it's time to take a break from everything else I'm doing and play a bit of Mordor again!

Only trouble is this 7 month hiatus (which has passed by excruciatingly fast) means I can't remember what any of my plans were, so I'm spending half my session now just reacquainting myself with who everyone is and what I was working towards.

OK, so I have a party of four characters whom I occasionally send out solo or in smaller groups:

Brundath, Male Neutral Giant
Mythraxa, Female Good Elf
Gnumen, Male Good Gnome
Nothrya, Female Neutral Osiri

Nothrya seems to be the most highly-levelled: Nomad 30, Seeker 30, Thief 33, Sorcerer 53, Wizard 41, Healer 45. Currently levelling Healer. She also has the highest HP of the lot at 480 so I must have been sending her on a lot of solo runs to advance that far above the rest.
Gnumen is next (I remember Gnumen was the first one I started with before creating the extra characters, and he helped Nothrya along in the early levels. I also remember writing hints of a sub-plot of an illicit affair between them in my dungeon delving descriptions because I have far too much imagination). Nomad 30, Paladin 30, Mage 31, Sorcerer 25. Currently levelling Sorcerer, 399 HP.
Brundath is clearly just the bog-standard skull crusher but hasn't been levelled much, only Nomad 1 and Warrior 22. 287 HP.
Mythraxa was the last to really get going and I think more for the sake of having a fourth party member than anything else. Nomad 19, Mage 1. Why I made her a mage when Gnumen's already a mage I don't know, unless it was because of her stats. Still quite low in a lot of them so I suppose that must have been it.

Well, it's going to take me a short while to get back into the whole dungeon delving malarky again so I think I'll just send the four of them into DLs 1 to 3 for a bit to remind myself of how I played them as a party. I know I got as far as DL 7 and I know I'm currently a little bit scared to venture to DL 8 because I don't yet know how to get back up from it. That, and Nothrya got stoned after teleporting there accidentally. Then she got turned to stone by a Grostrum. Told her to stay away from the stuff, but did she listen? No.

Anyway, hopefully I'll have some more interesting updates now that I've finished recapping for my own benefit biggrin.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 14 2019, 09:01 PM

It's funny how quickly things come back to you.

Brundath was almost pinned on a warrior quest so I deliberately pinned him and forfeited to further exploit the HP levelling. Meanwhile it didn't take me long to get bored of the upper levels, so I started my usual trek downwards, stopping by to murder the Goblin Shaman and Lord. Got an Aard for my lack of troubles so that was nice.

Had a couple of Diseased Mucks offer to join on level 3, so quickly scooped them up and took them back to town for sale. Not sure I've ever come across them before, but they were peaced and wanted to join so who am I to say no to sentient filth?

After that it was straight down to DL6 for some lake farming (after confusing it for DL7 because apparently someone who works in finance for a living can't count to 7). Nothrya just fumbled a Teleport trap and is now somewhere else. Time to load her up and see where she's got to. I love how party mechanics can be so easily manipulated in this game.

Well, that was amusing. She got teleported quite far away, easily killed the monsters in the room and fumbled another Teleport trap. This has placed her...slightly closer. Not far to run back so I'll have her rejoin the party and they can carry on from there.

A few seconds later...

And she's back with about 30 less SP and 50 less HP from combats I couldn't avoid in time. And a pit that levitation failed to keep her over. I like how it's a male voice which says "Hello there" regardless of the genders of the characters involved. Or perhaps Osiris just have deep voices?

Ooh, nasty...thought I'd applied Drain Resistance to the party on this run, but no. Gnumen got drained by a Ransae for Intelligence, Charisma and Dexterity. Didn't help either that both Gnumen and Nothrya had run out of SP at that point (my fault for not keeping an eye on their totals). Might have to buy back an Aard methinks. Got 58.5m gold for Gnumen alone so I suppose it's not too big a deal.

And of course it's only after buying one from the store that I realised I had an unidentified one in Gnumen's inventory...the very same one that he acquired at the start of the session. And it turns out to be Good-aligned. Oh well, a bit of arbitrage never screwed anyone over, right?

...in the end I used both. He lost 2 points of Dexterity to that damn Ransae and his Strength was never maxed out anyway so figured I'd just swallow that humongous gold loss and quaff 'em both.

Finally made it down to DL 7 after a diversion to visit the minotaur...who happened to be away on holiday somewhere and so it was just some puny creature in his stead. Mythraxa got eaten by a Giant Crocodile unfortunately so it's back to town now, and I think I'll call it a night there.

Got back to town and Mythraxa was raised without any problems. All's well that ends well. Good night all. Unless you're in a diametrically opposed time zone to me in which case, good day all.

Posted by: fischsemmel Sep 14 2019, 09:21 PM

Haha, good times. Your dudes have a boatload of hp for the levels! Makes me wish I forfeitted quests more often. It's pretty impressive pushing down onto 7 at those levels after a long break. I get worried if I go a week without playing, or if I play a new character for a few hours and get out of my previous groove.

Posted by: MythrilZenith Sep 15 2019, 07:50 PM

Sounds like you've been having a good go at it! It's always a bit intimidating trying to start up a full party after not playing them for awhile - I've been having the same issue with my other characters on this install. While I'm focusing most of my efforts on my solo elf Gil'Thrialle, I had a full 4-man party of 2 dwarves (one warrior/healer one warrior/thief), one human (ninja/sorc) and one gnome (mage/villain) that I was initially running before even starting Gil'Thrialle. That said, since it's been years since I've last used them as anything other than a rescue team, I kind of forgot even how to run a 4-man party laugh.gif
I might just send them around in smaller groups until I get the feeling for doing a full party. Then again it's been WAY too long since I've been a good melee character so I might just build up a solid giant. And an Osiri thief because high dex, am I right? Hmm...

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 15 2019, 09:16 PM

Well, I've spent a few more hours on the party today but not a lot to report. On a few occasions Nothrya fumbled a teleport trap and on one of them I really gained a new appreciation for how much easier it is to play a party compared to solo. On her way back to the party, she was leprosying a quad group of Giant Alligators over several rounds, and taking a hell of a lot of damage in the process. The party of four (which is really just a party of 3 babysitting a low level elf) usually tears through them in two or three rounds max and takes little damage in the process. And Nothrya's my most powerful character, so that just emphasises the point.

Got a few Mithril items and managed to explore some more of DL 7, including finding one set of stairs down to DL 8 for when I'm feeling brave enough. Mythraxa finally reached level 30 Nomad, so now I'm levelling her in Sorcerer for a bit until we find enough Good-aligned Aards to bring her stats up to join Wizard for the remaining HP optimisation. Sadly she got killed again on my first encounter against the Demonist - unfortunately I didn't notice her low hits in time. The first I knew of her death was wondering what that yelping sound was as she cried out her low HP moments before her death. It's OK though, Nothrya brought her back to the town stairs, dropped her corpse like a sack of potatoes, went back into town to replenish her HP and then resurrected Mythraxa like a sack of potatoes. The resurrection was successful. Mythraxa is now a sack of potatoes.

Seriously though, things have improved all round and a fair few levels have been made on all the characters now. My main goal at present is to get DL 7 fully explored and then venture on down to DL 8 and beyond.

Brundath - 406 HP, Warrior 43
Mythraxa - 280 HP, Nomad 30, Sorcerer 8
Gnumen - 419 HP, Nomad 30, Paladin 30, Mage 35, Sorcerer 41
Nothrya - 480 HP, Nomad 30, Seeker 30, Thief 44, Sorcerer 53, Wizard 41, Healer 51

I'm focusing on Warrior, Sorcerer, Sorcerer and Thief respectively for these four characters. I found that Nothrya was having only 50/50 chance at best of disarming traps on DL 7 so I want to get that cranked up some more before going back to probably Sorcerer for cheaper Element spells. Leprosy only costs 7 to cast but it's annoying when I come up against undead and forget to hit the Poison buffer instead so I'd like to get Acidic Spray down to a much lower cost (currently 16) and start using that as my default buffer. Same goes for Gnumen, his default is currently Leprosy.

What I have found with playing as a party is that it's much easier for me to focus on Nothrya and just have the other characters buffer their main killing spell, with my favourite alternative combat spells in easy to reach buffers for Nothrya. I'm also using buffers and keyboard shortcuts to rapidly deploy my chosen resistances at the start of each run, because that's bloody tedious otherwise. Basically put Nothrya as the leader, use buffers for Resist Stone/Paralysis/Drain and Feather Essence, kick out the other three party members, go back to town to replenish SP, cast those spells upon Nothrya and then add everyone back into the party, shuffling Nothrya to the back. Currently my runs are limited by SP rather than pinning so I'm returning to town more often than I'd like, but considering how deep I'm going with those levels it's not such a bad deal.

Posted by: MythrilZenith Sep 16 2019, 12:09 AM

QUOTE (BLauritson @ Sep 15 2019, 03:16 PM) *
What I have found with playing as a party is that it's much easier for me to focus on Nothrya and just have the other characters buffer their main killing spell, with my favourite alternative combat spells in easy to reach buffers for Nothrya. I'm also using buffers and keyboard shortcuts to rapidly deploy my chosen resistances at the start of each run, because that's bloody tedious otherwise. Basically put Nothrya as the leader, use buffers for Resist Stone/Paralysis/Drain and Feather Essence, kick out the other three party members, go back to town to replenish SP, cast those spells upon Nothrya and then add everyone back into the party, shuffling Nothrya to the back. Currently my runs are limited by SP rather than pinning so I'm returning to town more often than I'd like, but considering how deep I'm going with those levels it's not such a bad deal.


Yeah, the constant shifting of resistance spells (especially when every party member needs different ones) made me end up buffering a lot of resistances on my partying characters. I mean, if I'm rarely going to be using them in the dungeon (aside from maybe 1-2 panic buttons that I can N- through and cast hopefully within a single round) then it makes sense to put them to use where I am actually going to find a use for them - even if it is just cutting down tedium. It's also helpful to build a proper resistance habit because then you aren't randomly forgetting to cast one particular resist on one particular party member and - oops! looks like the gnome just got stoned.

I think it was the tedium of casting resistances, as well as the frustration of getting separated by teleporters and traps, that finally drove me to go back to solo characters. A stupid reason, I know, but I started to have to mentally prepare myself every time I entered the dungeon for the solid minute of resistance casts I would need to do before I could even leave the doorstep of the town - and that's not including any extra time spent logging out of the group, logging into my sorcerer outside the group, going back to town to refresh, coming back down, logging out, relogging into my party leader to get the sorc back...
Yeah. Grinding doesn't bother me, but extraordinary tedium like that does wear me down.

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 16 2019, 06:50 AM

I can understand that. I think it's one of the reasons my renewed interest in Mordor late last year started wearing off again, having to keep casting a bunch of spells at the start of every dungeon run.

Something I did consider yesterday, but abandoned after one attempt because I just wanted to get on with the game, is using a program called https://www.macrocreator.com/download/ to see if I could automate the process of casting resistances at the start of a run. I first heard of this program from someone at work earlier this year and I believe there's a file on this site somewhere of someone who used it to create an automated grinder by repeating certain steps of travelling in the dungeon and casting certain spells etc. I might have another go this week at setting up such a macro, since that would ease the resistance casting considerably (and also allow a greater range of resistances to be cast without the associated tedium). If I am successful I'll upload it to this site for others to use.

As an aside, I'm obviously not playing Mordor enough right now because I've already started dreaming about it again biggrin.gif Last night had a horrible dream that I'd encountered some new undead monster type who had inflicted a couple of aging attacks, and two of my party members were suddenly 60. Nevertheless I ventured further on down and the next thing I can remember is that three of my party members were suddenly back to their normal age, but Gnumen had been aged to over 900 years old blink.gif. He ended up looking like a horrendously bloated zombie (who was grinning happily in complete spite of the circumstances) and when we got back to town he was hanged outside the gates as an abomination while I just watched on in despair at losing my second most powerful party member.

Oh well, a day of work to get through and then time for more Mordor biggrin.gif

Posted by: fischsemmel Sep 16 2019, 10:28 AM

I considered a macro program too! Especially because stretching my hand on my laptop keyboard to shift+7890 where I keep my most common resist buffs hurts my fingers and doing it two handed takes forever. laugh.gif

Fortunately a full party can stay in the dungeon so long that I don't feel like 4-5 buffs * 4 characters is too awfully annoying, but I totally see how some might.

Posted by: Roland Sep 16 2019, 03:38 PM

Here is my secret to casting resistance spells quickly: When you cast the first resistance spell on a character, you have to do some moving of the mouse and clicking. But that sets some defaults, and after that it goes fast. Just click once on the spell in the list, and then hit the enter key twice. With my right hand on the mouse and my left on the enter key, it takes seconds to cast the five spells Aelric needs.

It doesn't take much longer for Frar to spell up my other two high-level characters. He casts all of the resistance spells on them before every run since it is basically free - he boots them from the party and returns to town to recover his spell points, then rejoins them. That maneuvering takes as much time as the actual spellcasting.

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 16 2019, 08:56 PM

Well on today's run Nothrya fumbled another Teleporter trap on DL 6. On the plus side, this led to her passing through a room with two friendly Pelagons who wished to join. Apart from breathing on Gnumen a couple of times they proved to be rather valuable companions for the short time I had them with me. Now they're zoo animals in the confinement. Silly Pelagons.

And on DL 7 she fumbled another one and landed in an unexplored area blink.gif...luckily with a bit of back-and-forthing (technical term) she was right next to an explored area separated only by a wall. One Ethereal portal later and she's back with the rest of the party again. I really need to be more disciplined in checking trap types before attempting to open them.

Oh dear...and Nothry's now the only survivor of a ZBrat ambush on DL 7. I had no idea they could tear through a party so quickly...going to get her back to town, heal up and then try to demolish the rest before resurrecting the party.

OK, party rescued and resurrected by Nothrya. Resurrect costs 127 SP at the moment so I first had to carefully dash back into the room, grab the first corpse on the list (Mythraxa) and run back to the town stairs, drop the body, heal, restore SP, come back down and resurrect Mythraxa. Then Nothrya escorted her back down to outside the DL 7 room but left her to wait there. Luckily there weren't too many ZBrats left and a few more rounds of Leprosy rotted them all to pieces. Nothrya resurrected Gnumen there and then, and finally carried Brundath back to the town stairs for the same routine again.

Brundath got quested for a Rowdy, at which point he started making a load of noise and clanging about the place until the Questmaster whacked him over the head with a giant club. He's still not very intelligent yet. Luckily, Gnumen is, so he had the idea of cheating by buying a Rowdy from the confinement, attacking it and charming it in that first combat round. Quest completed, Rowdy stocked back in the confinement again. Brundath still doesn't quite understand what his quest was.

With the party reformed I once again ventured towards the room where they nearly got obliterated by ZBrats, preparing with trepidation to venture down to DL 8...only to realise that room contains stairs up, not down. I really need to learn to pay attention. Oh well, lake has respawned so I can farm that again. Ran into a Purple Ooze and Gnumen just lost a very, very valuable item...his Leather Cap! sad.gif

Honestly I didn't even realise he still had that equipped! Need to pay more attention to my characters' equipment.

On the plus side, I'm now on DL 8! Haven't fully explored 7 yet but the parts that aren't explored don't seem to be accessible from where I currently access it from, so wondering if there's another set of stairs up from 8 that I can access the remainder of DL 7 with (since I don't want to risk stranding my party by portalling through walls and then using up all my SP).

Finally got Brundath's Intelligence and Wisdom up to 13 to allow him to join Seeker guild. Just racing him through the levels now, especially as he's still party leader and capable of wielding a Steel Dagger it's easy to rack up the experience points on the top levels.

Well, Brundath is now level 10 after two forfeits (last one at level 12 being quested for a Namana. There are none in the confinement and I didn't have the patience to keep searching for one). And that's enough for me for today.

Posted by: fischsemmel Sep 16 2019, 09:52 PM

Yeah, don't monkey around with zbrats or thd other "instadeath" groups unless you KNOW your defense can handle them. I'd use acidic spray or bigger spells to burn them down, or leave them alone.

What sort of defense numbers do your guys have? I didn't see any zbrats until I was around 210 I think, and they were pretty tolerable at that point vs a party of 4 as long as I didn't try to melee them all down. Now at 250ish defense (and 4 swings per character that tend to 1shot) I don't even cast on them.

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 17 2019, 06:45 AM

That's a good point actually, I've not really been tracking my characters' A/D values so they're not particularly impressive at the moment:

Brundath: 111/111
Mythraxa: 107/107
Gnumen: 138/141
Nothrya: 162/156

They can handle most encounters as Brundath is your run-of-the-mill Giant Warrior tank and the rest are blasting magic at the monsters they fight, but as I've found they are still vulnerable to the more dangerous ones like ZBrat mobs.

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 20 2019, 08:27 PM

I've mapped out about a sixth of DL 8 now, so making some good progress there. Nothrya has just become the Thief guild leader and now both Nothrya and Brundath are all able to equip an Adamantite Dagger which should hopefully make them slightly less impotent against those nasty Ninja I encountered during my first foray into DL 8. Might not have been so bad were they not in an anti-magic room - in my first foray I suffered two rounds of attacks before I realised my party couldn't fight them but I was able to back out before anyone was killed.

Additionally I've finally scavenged enough Aards from the Goblin Shaman that Brundath is now able to cast Mass Levitate, freeing up a few spell points for Nothrya who was hitherto the party buffer-upper before each dungeon run. Next I need an Aard for Mythraxa as she is just one point shy in both Int and Wis of joining the Wizard's guild, which will be necessary to continue her HP levelling before the cap. Currently her 280 HP feels a bit of a weak link compared to the 400+ of the remainder of the party.

Nevertheless my party is doing well against path from 7 to 8, clearing out the whole lake each time it respawns without too much of an issue. I have already discovered on DL 8 a walled room leading to two teleporters at the end. I have read before that there is a dungeon level where there are no stairs down, only teleporters, and for a time I thought that to be the case for 7 to 8, but perhaps it is 8 to 9 instead. Either way I'm going to wait a long time before I brave teleporting down from DL 8 - need to make sure they are more or less dominating DL 8 before I venture further. I haven't even (deliberately) entered any teleporters on 7 yet for that precise reason.

Still, it's all part of the grinding up process. Also found my first Mithril Dagger on today's run, but it was evil-aligned and I'm nowhere close to having any character able to equip it yet so I just sold it instead.

Posted by: fischsemmel Sep 20 2019, 09:02 PM

Are you using mass levitate with a character who goes back to town before adventuring? Cause it takes like 200+ levels for it to be cheaper than 4x feather essence casts iirc!

Were the antimagic ninjas you saw in a tiny room due south of the stairs to 7? I hate that little room, laugh.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 20 2019, 10:16 PM

I'm using my Giant Warrior (Brundath) to cast Mass Levitate after Nothrya has done her casting and town return since currently he's not casting any other spells anyway smile.gif

I have returned him to levelling Seeker now in order to get the remaining spells down to a more reasonable cost, but until then I'm just enjoying the convenience of one spell casting vs four since he's not yet using those SP for anything else.

EDIT: Forgot to add, the ninjas were in a 4x4 room due north instead, although I have explored the tiny rooms due south of the stairs. I can't remember what monster I found in the tiny antimagic room, but I think it was a group of thieves. They spawned peaced so I decided not to risk getting my valuables stolen tongue.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 21 2019, 09:20 PM

Well, I've got a good deal of DL 8 mapped out now, probably about 60% or so by my rough estimation. Aesthetically I very much like the look of DL 8, it has a lot of nice open spaces and neatly organised rooms which I like.

Also for the first time in my life encountered a Gibbering Yethwa. I decided it would be a fun idea to Soul Entrap it, but Gnumen still has to pay 98 SP for that to happen so it was a case of repeatedly attempting to cast, doing a bit of damage, attempting to cast again, running back to town to replenish, lather rinse repeat. After doing that about three times and being careful to make sure only Gnumen was meleeing it in between casts so that I wouldn't accidentally kill it.....I accidentally killed it ranting.gif wallbash.gif. Not amused.

On the plus side, I finally got around to using that Pulover's Macro creator program to have Nothrya cast Resist Paralysis, Stoning and Draining on the other three party members, kick them out, return to town, descend again, cast those three resistances on herself and then add everyone back in the correct order. All I then manually do is swap her with Brundath and have Brundath cast Mass Levitate for convenience. I cannot emphasise enough just how much more enjoyable this makes the game now. It was tedious to create it (especially as the macro program kept crashing on me) but once I figured out some of the hotkeys it made it a bit easier. But yes, knowing that all I have to do now is press a button and watch the resistance casting process take place in front of me makes it so much easier, as I can just focus on the grinding and exploration without worrying about making sure I've cast everything correctly at the start.

I'll see if I can upload that file to this site some time tomorrow as it's getting late in my timezone now tongue.gif

Posted by: MythrilZenith Sep 21 2019, 10:05 PM

Soul Entrap should have a pretty strong "damage" on it. Unless your active class was really low level it would surprise me that you ended up killing the Yewthwa before you charmed it.

Glad that you got a macro working to make your party more enjoyable! What type of programs did you have to download, and how did you end up coding it? With a different party of different character names I would assume there would need to be different keys pressed, but it would be something I might want to look into.

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 22 2019, 07:10 AM

Ah, I realise now my fatal mistake on the Gibbering Yethwa front sad.gif

On my last return to town some of the rooms on the higher levels had respawned, so for efficiency's sake I just quickly set everyone's combat defaults back to Fight so that I could clear those out quickly and not worry about Gnumen trying to cast Soul Entrapment on a Giant Spider for example (although that would be amusing for sheer overkill).

Unfortunately...when we got back to DL 8 I forgot to unset the Fight commands on everyone else and so after Gnumen's first failed attempt on that round, everyone else took a swing also which I failed to register in time, so Gnumen took a swing instead of casting again and so combined with all of the previous damage dealt, the Yethwa died. Most frustrating but there you go, just have to hope I'm never quested for one now tongue.gif

As for the macro, there's a free one called Pulover's Macro Creator which you can download from https://www.macrocreator.com/download/. The interface can be a bit awkward until you get used to how it works. I found out the hard way that if you're going to record a macro with it then you'll most likely want to uncheck the "Time Intervals" option in the macro settings as otherwise every little delay will absolutely flood your recorded macro with Sleep commands.

So you can either use that program to record your own, or you can download the file I've attached (which still requires the above program to run it) and modify it to suit your party smile.gif

What my file is doing, high-level step by step, is as follows:
1) Activate the Mordor window
2) Press Shift+C
3) Type "Resist Paralysis" and press Enter
4) Type the name of the first character and press Enter
5) Press Shift+C and Enter again, then repeat step 4 for the other two characters
6) Repeat steps 2 to 5 for Resist Stoning and then Resist Draining
7) Kick out the remaining party members
8) Press T to return to town, then Alt+D to immediately go back into the dungeon
9) Repeat steps 2 to 6 to cast those spells upon the resistance caster
10) Ask the party characters back into the party

The file makes the assumption that the character doing the casting is the party leader, otherwise the section for kicking out the other party members won't work properly.

It will take a bit of getting used to but hopefully you should find this program very useful once you are familiar with it. I can imagine it will be a real time-saver later on when there are other resistances one needs to cast on a regular basis for the lower dungeon levels.

Finally, the file can either be edited within the program or you can use Notepad or any other text editor to modify it directly, depending how comfortable you are with doing so smile.gif

EDIT: OK the board doesn't like that type of file. Hmm...let me see...
EDIT 2: OK here we go, just needed to put it inside a zip file for all the difference that makes.

 Mordor_resistance_caster.zip ( 1.59K ) : 0
 

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 26 2019, 09:18 PM

Memo to self: Whenever I change a party member's default combat spell buffer for a particular purpose, always change it back as soon as that purpose is fulfilled.

Started an evening session today and found on my way through DL 2 a message about a companion getting restless. Curious, I didn't remember having any companions. OK, Gnumen had a slave companion. Must have been a hangover from a recent quest on my last session that I'd forgotten about, I mused. Attacked the slave (because what else are slaves for?) and forgot about it. Next thing I know, after my usual diversion through 3 to grind for Aards, Gnumen has a Goblin Guard companion. Turns out he had Charm Humanoid as a buffer, precisely for buying a companion, initiating combat and charming it back to fulfil a quest in my last session. Oh well, that was mildly amusing to discover anyway.

Encountered my first Mundragons in a stud room on DL 8. At one point Mythraxa was hit for over 100 HP but luckily she was close to full when it happened, so we backed out quickly and healed up before going back in to rot them alive. Got some Mithril Chain Mail for my troubles, but it's evil-aligned and far too high level for Brundath to equip yet anyway so that's been liquidated for 15m gold instead.

In other news, Nothrya has now reached level 62 in Sorcerer and claimed the crest. Putting her back to Thief for the time being as she's still only getting 50% chance at best of disarming DL 7 traps and I want to improve that.

Speaking of crests, if another character takes over as Guildmaster, do they get a new crest also or is that only possible by resetting the corresponding data file? Does the old Guildmaster character still retain their crest?

Finally, I've fully mapped out DL 8 now, so I'm going to make sure I get the remainder of DL 7 mapped out and then maybe experiment by dipping my toe into the water of DL 9...assuming that's where the DL 8 descending teleporters lead to...

Posted by: Roland Sep 26 2019, 09:39 PM

QUOTE (BLauritson @ Sep 26 2019, 05:18 PM) *
Memo to self: Whenever I change a party member's default combat spell buffer for a particular purpose, always change it back as soon as that purpose is fulfilled.

Sometimes after resetting my default buffer I've had a character continuing to cast a top-level combat spell in every encounter. That drains spell points rapidly!

QUOTE (BLauritson @ Sep 26 2019, 05:18 PM) *
Speaking of crests, if another character takes over as Guildmaster, do they get a new crest also or is that only possible by resetting the corresponding data file? Does the old Guildmaster character still retain their crest?

A character who exceeds all other characters in the guild in levels immediately becomes guildmaster and gets a crest. The crest can only be lost if it gets slimed in the dungeon - otherwise the character has it for life, even if another character surpasses him in guild levels. If a crest does get slimed, it will be replaced upon returning to town IF AND ONLY IF the character is still guildmaster.

Posted by: fischsemmel Sep 26 2019, 09:45 PM

QUOTE (BLauritson @ Sep 22 2019, 03:10 AM) *
, just have to hope I'm never quested for one now tongue.gif


Fortunately they aren't really THAT rare. Hit up the indigini rooms on 7 3-4 times and you're more likely than not to run into one, in my experience.

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 27 2019, 06:00 AM

Thanks both, that's good to know smile.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 28 2019, 09:21 PM

Well, I really need to pay more attention to the dungeon maps. Finally got DL 7 fully explored after fighting my way through DL 8 to find the stairs on the right hand side of the map, only to eventually discover that there are stairs leading down to that side from DL 6. Stairs which I found long ago when I first mapped out DL 6. Oh well, it's an excuse to keep farming the lake on 7 I suppose.

Gnumen is now the new Sorcerer Guildmaster, so he is switching over to Mage for the time being to max that one out (or at least become Guildmaster, might focus on Paladin after that).

Brundath is at level 59 Seeker and has been quested for a Wererat. Which wouldn't be a problem if it didn't keep failing to spawn in its usual place on DL 2. Oh well, back to Warrior for a while...thinking about it he's only 5 levels away from Guildmastering (technical term) Warrior anyway so might as well make that push now.

Now that I've fully mapped out DLs 1 to 8, my plan is to get Brundath enough Seeker levels that Teleport won't drain half his current SP, then I'll eventually make the leap into whichever dungeon level the teleporters on DL 8 take me to. At least if I can't find the way back I can Teleport the party back to safety.

Had an Earth Golem offer to join on DL 6 so it was straight back to the confinement with him. Sold for more than 2m but I'm pretty sure it cost nearly that much, if not more than that to go through all the layers of identification. Oh well.

Ooh! Just found my first ever Orb of Life Domination on DL 7. And in the same run Mythraxa FINALLY reached Wizard 31 so starting to gain HP again. Now I need to remember to deliberately forfeit any and all quests she receives up to 41 in order to exploit the HP bonus therefrom. Still haven't found a bloody wererat for Brundath yet.

Well Brundath is now Guildmaster of Warrior. Gnumen is 3 away from becoming the new Mage Guildmaster so that's my next objective now.

One level away now from Gnumen becoming Guildmaster of Mage. Also found my first ever Purple Sash on the last run, with 100 charges. No doubt in months to come that Purple Sash will still have 100 charges.

OK in complete contradiction of the previous statement I now have 99 charges on said sash. Came upon a peaced group of Silver Dragons on DL 7 so decided to promote Gnumen to leader and use the sash. Despite them accidentally breathing on Mythraxa at one point I think I might actually keep these companions, tempting though it may be to sell them. Then again...nah, sell 'em. My party's surviving just fine as it is on DLs 7 and 8 and there's no guarantee they'll last forever. And, unlike the lone Healer of the group (Nothrya), Gnumen can't resurrect his dead companions. Not without paying the morgue for the service anyway. Off to the confinement they go.

On the plus side...Gnumen is now the Mage Guildmaster! Woah, SIX free casts of Soul Entrapment?! GIMME GIMME GIMME!

I think though I want to leave Mage for now, as I'd like to give Mythraxa some Mage levels also when she's done with her Wizard levelling and it would be nice to have two characters who can Soul Entrap at will.

On that note, however...time for a break. Been playing for about 2½ hours today which is a lot more than I usually spend on any game these days. Good night* all!

* Or morning/afternoon/evening depending on your timezone.

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 29 2019, 04:37 PM

Finally found a Wererat to slay, so Brundath is now back working on his Seeker levels.

Decided it was finally time to push for DL 9, and was pleased to discover that getting back to DL 8 was not at all difficult whatsoever. So far the enemies don't appear that much worse than DL 8 so I think my party will be fine for the time being. Individually I don't think any one of them would survive for long, but combined they are quite a powerful force for as long as their SP holds out.

Mythraxa got quested for a Namana during her Wizard levelling, and despite finding a hell of a lot more than I normally would in a dungeon run I managed to avoid killing any of them so that she could successfully forfeit for HP scumming purposes. Lost 3 levels and 3 max HP with them, so I'm sure the balance will be much higher once they're reclaimed.

Gnumen is getting quested left, right and centre for his Paladin levels which is annoying me. First he pinned trying to find a Green Ooze, so I forfeited three levels, then a few levels later he's quested for a Girdle of Strength, so now he no longer has the one he had equipped, and right on his next level he's quested for a War Hammer. Starting to question whether levelling Paladin is really worth it, but I do want to get some guild crests for Mythraxa so unless I decide to make Gnumen the sole mage of the group then Paladin is just a waiting guild until she catches up on the Sorcerer levels at least.

Thoughts anyone on whether Paladin is worth levelling for a Gnome in a party that's led by a Giant Warrior?

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 29 2019, 08:56 PM

OK, despite my previous frustrations I did just find a War Hammer from some monster in DL 2 on my usual route to the depths at the start of this session, so perhaps that wasn't such an onerous task after all..

At Wizard level 37 Mythraxa has been quested for a Giant Centipede. This is going to take some effort to forfeit given my obsession of clearing out every room on my descent through the dungeon..

Half the party fell down a chute to level 10. This in turn resulted in my first casting of the Teleport spell. Such was my paranoia of getting it wrong and rocking the party that I backed up the game before doing so. The paranoia was unfounded, they're back on DL 9 now.

Argh! Killed a Giant Centipede. Oh well, Mythraxa is at 336 HP for now and to be fair she's probably not going to finish Wizard 41 with 400+ HP anyway given her low maximum Con, so I'll just settle for whatever she gets in the end.

The Seeker guild has quested Brundath for a Wereboar, something I've seen a few of earlier today and now they're as rare as unicorns it seems. Oh well, no reason he can't go back for some Warrior levels (work ever closer to attaining that Mithril Dagger he has in the bank...) so that will be that for the time being. Time to chill out before the weekly work cycle begins again.

Posted by: MythrilZenith Sep 30 2019, 01:40 AM

Paladin is really the best warrior-type guild a Gnome can be in. Their fighting skill isn't *that* far below Warrior, and they get most weapons and armor at the same rate. While I agree that you might not necessarily *need* a ton of fighter-type levels if you already have a Giant in the party, melee strength is the one thing in the game that you can never really get too much of. You don't want to be wasting spell uses just to contribute meaningfully in any given fight, and extra A/D means extra survivability. Now, in a party of 4 that might not be much of an issue early on, but later on in the dungeon you'll find yourself constantly taking hits on any party member whose defense isn't up to par.
While it's not exactly applicable in all situations, my preferred maxim for this is "You're only as survivable as your weakest party member." At least, unless you don't mind dumping SP on heals and raises.

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 30 2019, 06:27 PM

Thanks, that's good to know, especially on the A/D front smile.gif

I think with that in mind I should definitely focus on Paladin for Mythraxa also once her Wizard levelling is complete, as currently especially against mobs like Giant Crocodiles on DL 7 she gets targeted far more often than I would like. And since Nothrya is the only one in Healer, her SP pool is what ultimately decides the length of my dungeon run unless one of my characters has pinned. Gnumen functions as a backup healer but now that I think about it I do spend a lot of SP healing which could be spent on earning experience instead.

Posted by: BLauritson Sep 30 2019, 08:44 PM

Mythraxa has now reached Wizard level 41 with 359 HP...

...and been quested to return an Iron Chain Mail. That will be nice and easy to forfeit! So hopefully should finish slightly higher than that then before grinding up the 2 HP per level train.

Speaking of which, Nothrya is leading the pack with 540 HP at the moment. She's currently level 83 in Thief, and I think with how quickly she's gaining those Thief levels (and conscious of how slowly she's improving her thieving ability on DL 7) I'm going to take her all the way up to level 110 so that she can equip the Mithril Dagger stored in the bank. And she'll have 594 HP which will be awesome.

Not much else to report from tonight's session. Nothrya has now been quested at Thief 84 for a Nakovant. I think I'll probably forfeit if she pins as Thief quest chance is so low anyway it's probably not worth holding out for actually finding one of the damn creatures. Brundath found a Wereboar at last, which is fortunate as in Warrior he's been quested for a Swashbuckler. As long as he can alternate between the two guilds I'm not too concerned.

Oh, and Gnumen is racing through those Paladin levels despite the quests. Now at 51 or 52 I think (already closed the game by the time I wrote this paragraph and can't be bothered to go back in to check). Going to go for the crest and then re-evaluate from there.

Posted by: BLauritson Oct 5 2019, 10:00 AM

I've now officially mapped out all of DL 9, so I'm on to exploring DL 10 now.

Mythraxa has finished her Wizard levelling at last, earning 370 max HP at the end of it, so that's 90 extra HP from those 11 Wizard levels compared to when she finished Nomad 30.

Brundath is just one level away from becoming the Seeker guildmaster and Nothrya is my highest-level character at Thief 87. I would like to resume her Healer levelling at some point, but I also recall my desire to reach Thief 110 so that she can equip the Mithril Dagger, so I'll stick with her Thief levelling until then. Going to seem strange watching her go from 35 Dexterity to a mere 28 again when she switches away from Thief (Thief Sword (2), Thief's Gloves (1) and Guild crest (4)) but hey ho. The other extra point of Dex comes from Boots of Evading but those are equippable by all classes so that will remain at least. I wonder how much her trap disarming skill will diminish by losing those 7 points of Dex? Feels like her Thieving skill is increasing very sluggishly at the moment but perhaps that's just the way of things - I only even notice it because of how frequently she fumbles traps on DL 7 and below.

As an aside, I also wonder if it's worth switching both Mythraxa and Nothrya back to Wizard just to get the guild crest? But then if I'm never going to level that guild there's probably not a lot of point...although it does give Nothrya Kill spells which would be otherwise inaccessible as she can't join Mage. Hmm...I think I only desire the crest just for the sake of collecting crests really bleh.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Oct 5 2019, 06:18 PM

I must admit I'm incredibly surprised at how well this party is surviving on the lower levels so far. Got DL 10 fully mapped out now and nearly a quarter of DL 11 mapped. Saying that though, Brundath got drained for 2 points of Int and one of Con after the party walked into an Extinguish room containing a group of undead. That was annoying, but could have been far worse I suppose.

In spite of that I'm looking forward to finding the so-called graveyard that I've often heard talked about on here. I am finding that DL 11 exploration is slower because I'm having to heal the party a lot more, so this party is by no means dominating the dungeon below DL 9 but at least they're pushing forward which is the main thing.

Also, I must say I'm incredibly disappointed with the Paladin and Wizard guild crests, awarded today to Gnumen and Mythraxa respectively. I think I'm best off just focusing on those guilds I'm actually likely to stick with for the long haul, as best suits my play style.

Current party stats and levels for reference are as follows:

Brundath - 496 HP - Warrior 60, *Seeker 90
Mythraxa - 386 HP - *Sorcerer 37, Wizard 49
Gnumen - 481 HP - *Paladin 72, Mage 53, Sorcerer 63
Nothrya - 576 HP - Seeker 30, *Thief 101, Sorcerer 62, Healer 51

The asterisked guilds are the ones currently being focused on for each character. I'm keeping Gnumen in Paladin until Mythraxa gets her own Sorcerer guild crest, then I think I'm going to just level both in Sorcerer after that to increase the potency of their blasting spells. As for Nothrya...I think once she reaches Thief 110, I'll focus on Healer to drive down the healing and damage spell costs, but I'll probably revert back to Thief for the endgame once I'm eventually capable of attacking DL 15.

Posted by: MythrilZenith Oct 5 2019, 08:56 PM

QUOTE (BLauritson @ Oct 5 2019, 12:18 PM) *
Also, I must say I'm incredibly disappointed with the Paladin and Wizard guild crests, awarded today to Gnumen and Mythraxa respectively. I think I'm best off just focusing on those guilds I'm actually likely to stick with for the long haul, as best suits my play style.


The 12 uses of Minor Heal from the Paladin guild can mean a fair bit of healing at high levels - I'm 430 right now and it averages to around 500 or so HP in free healing every run - but yeah the overall crest is fairly disappointing. No resistances and not as much A/D or raw stat power as I'd like.
Wizard crest is also only decent at best, and its 6 charges of Power are next to useless. Like, I get that they didn't want to give multiple charges of a truly powerful spell, but Power? Seriously? Sorcerers get Pillar of Fire, Healers get Restoration, Mages get freaking Soul Entrapment, and Wizards, the most stat-heavy join restricted class in the game, get... Power? dntknw.gif

Sounds like you're blitzing quite quickly down the dungeon, though! I know I was a LOT slower in delving deeper, though all things considered I probably was far too careful, and that definitely limited my enjoyment of the game. That said, I was tired of getting a ton of weapons and armor that I was a hundred or more levels too low to use, and I was really worried about getting into a situation where none of my weapons worked.

Posted by: Roland Oct 6 2019, 05:34 AM

QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Oct 5 2019, 04:56 PM) *
Wizard crest is also only decent at best, and its 6 charges of Power are next to useless. Like, I get that they didn't want to give multiple charges of a truly powerful spell, but Power? Seriously? Sorcerers get Pillar of Fire, Healers get Restoration, Mages get freaking Soul Entrapment, and Wizards, the most stat-heavy join restricted class in the game, get... Power? dntknw.gif

Villains get Poison, which has the same maximum damage as the Wizards' Power!

Posted by: BLauritson Oct 6 2019, 07:07 AM

That is crazy that Villains can essentially do as much damage as Wizards from their respective guild crests. I was wondering last night is there any way the hybrid guilds (Scavenger, Villain, Wizard etc.) could be rebalanced to make them more viable and competitive with the specialist guilds, but given the way the rest of the game fits around it (party management, multi-classing etc.) I'm not sure there is a lot that could be done really. Make them a bit more powerful and they risk overtaking the very specialist guilds they're designed to balance against dntknw.gif

I must admit in my earlier days with this party I was being rather cautious in how far I ventured, which I think was a carryover from my previous mode of solo gaming. A few times I've considered taking just one of my current party members out to give them a boost in experience, but combat resolves so much more slowly when everything is focused on that one character that I just don't bother any more.

Unfortunately I have become a little blasé at times when venturing into the deeper levels. Mythraxa died at one point yesterday in completely avoidable circumstances. Backing in and out of a cleared room on DL 10 or 11 in order to determine the true trap type of the chest in there - OK it was a fire trap. No problem, I'll probably fumble it but I've got SP left over for healing.

Yes...perhaps I should have checked the state of the party's health BEFORE pressing the 'O' key...the poor elf was reduced to cinders sad.gif

On the plus side, unless I've just been lucky with the rolls it does seem that successful resurrections initiated by another character never result in Constitution loss. Is that correct or have I just been lucky every time Nothrya has cast Resurrection on somebody?

Only other bit to report is that last night, at Thief 101, Nothrya got quested for an Orb of Life Domination. Thief indeed! Even if I did have one just lying about I'm not going to hand such a valuable item over to the guild for the sake of a few low-exp levels. Time for another forfeit it seems...

Posted by: MythrilZenith Oct 6 2019, 04:20 PM

QUOTE (BLauritson @ Oct 6 2019, 01:07 AM) *
On the plus side, unless I've just been lucky with the rolls it does seem that successful resurrections initiated by another character never result in Constitution loss. Is that correct or have I just been lucky every time Nothrya has cast Resurrection on somebody?


Resurrection by party member still has roughly the same chance of constitution loss as resurrection by Morgue, iirc. That chance gets lower as your Con gets higher, same with the chance of complications. It also gets higher as you approach maximum age, though until you start getting significantly close that age difference won't really matter much. So if you're at max Con, you're at less chance of losing that Con, but as soon as you lose one point then your chances of losing Con increase. Just a funny interaction.

Posted by: Roland Oct 6 2019, 11:10 PM

QUOTE (BLauritson @ Oct 6 2019, 03:07 AM) *
I was wondering last night is there any way the hybrid guilds (Scavenger, Villain, Wizard etc.) could be rebalanced to make them more viable and competitive with the specialist guilds, but given the way the rest of the game fits around it (party management, multi-classing etc.) I'm not sure there is a lot that could be done really. Make them a bit more powerful and they risk overtaking the very specialist guilds they're designed to balance against dntknw.gif

This is mostly a vestige of Avatar, where multi-classing is not possible. DA does not seem to have altered the guilds very much for balance in the multi-class context. The biggest change he made was to drastically reduce the att/def of the spellcasting guilds, which practically makes dual-classing compulsory for spellcasters. (In Avatar, spellcasters actually had higher defense than fighter types.)

As we've all been experimenting with our solo characters, it has occurred to me that the thing that makes it a grind is the necessity to level in so many different guilds to obtain all the necessary abilities. I've been trying to figure out how to minimize the number of guilds, and instead focus on amassing lots of levels in a few guilds. My tentative conclusion is that the optimal solo character might be a Ninja/Wizard. The only ability not covered by those two guilds is healing. The main drawback is that such a character would have to be human.

Posted by: fischsemmel Oct 7 2019, 10:49 AM

No healing would be a big problem though, unless you arent dying at all ... especially since a ninja/wizard would be a human!

The game basically forcing you to have 95 (or at least 90) in resists and the spell cost system makes it really hard to not be a sorcerer, too.

I think the grind is appropriate though really. Especially as a solo, if you aren't leveling 3 guilds a ton, you won't be in the dungeon enough to find the cool items you need anyways.

Posted by: Roland Oct 7 2019, 03:46 PM

QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Oct 7 2019, 06:49 AM) *
No healing would be a big problem though, unless you arent dying at all ... especially since a ninja/wizard would be a human!

The game basically forcing you to have 95 (or at least 90) in resists and the spell cost system makes it really hard to not be a sorcerer, too.

I think the grind is appropriate though really. Especially as a solo, if you aren't leveling 3 guilds a ton, you won't be in the dungeon enough to find the cool items you need anyways.

I'm thinking the Ninja/Wizard would need enough Sorc levels to minimize the cost of resistance spells and enough Mage levels to get access to cubes. As for healing, the game seems to produce a lot of healing items, and a few Mage levels would give you access to even more healing items.

Posted by: fischsemmel Oct 7 2019, 05:48 PM

QUOTE (Roland @ Oct 7 2019, 11:46 AM) *
I'm thinking the Ninja/Wizard would need enough Sorc levels to minimize the cost of resistance spells and enough Mage levels to get access to cubes. As for healing, the game seems to produce a lot of healing items, and a few Mage levels would give you access to even more healing items.


But at that point what good is wizard even?

Posted by: Roland Oct 7 2019, 06:39 PM

QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Oct 7 2019, 01:48 PM) *
But at that point what good is wizard even?

Most obviously, Word of Death. And extra hits from optimal leveling path.

The criteria I specified for Sorc and Mage levels are both less than 100. (Specifically, Sorc 91 and Mage 95.) That wouldn't take a lot of time. Such a character could also skip Nomad entirely, saving a bit of time. With the Ninja's extra swing, leveling in the spellcasting guilds might come fast.

I'm actually thinking about attempting this in my current dungeon. With confinement nearly filled, the Ninja's high quest parameter won't be nearly as annoying. And the Ninja and Wizard crests are currently unclaimed, which means both would become available at level 49 in the respective guilds.

Posted by: fischsemmel Oct 7 2019, 07:40 PM

Hmm. I'm just not feelin it I guess. WoD is cool and all, but it is a REALLY late bloomer for wizard. I think I'd just prefer to focus on sorc or mage. And unfortunately I think a 200 thief/warrior/healer would still work better than a 500 ninja/wiz... laugh.gif

A "2 guild challenge" or something would be fun.

Posted by: Roland Oct 9 2019, 01:05 AM

QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Oct 7 2019, 03:40 PM) *
Hmm. I'm just not feelin it I guess. WoD is cool and all, but it is a REALLY late bloomer for wizard. I think I'd just prefer to focus on sorc or mage. And unfortunately I think a 200 thief/warrior/healer would still work better than a 500 ninja/wiz... laugh.gif

A "2 guild challenge" or something would be fun.

But you can't be a thief/warrior/healer without being neutral. And you would also want seeker levels for the perception if you're playing in a fresh dungeon. (Ninjas have the second-best perception, after seekers, and wizards can teleport, so seeker is another guild a ninja/wizard could dispense with.)

Another idea I have toyed with to address the endless-grind problem is a party with one guild per character (besides nomad). Maybe a party of four Dwarves or Osiris - seeker, thief, sorcerer, healer. The likely problem is that 175 defense from nomad might not be quite enough to keep the spellcasters safe on 14-15.

Posted by: fischsemmel Oct 9 2019, 12:22 PM

Eh. Like I said. I just don't think wizard brings enough to the table (it's literally only WoD, and it is hardly usable for 200+ levels because of how wizards get it at CL 18, at which point it's not too unlikely you'll have a cap of death for the one fight you really need WoD anyways). If you're going to have ~100 sorc and mage levels anyway, which isn't a trivial amount of time without powerleveling of some sort, why then also worry about wizard for such little return instead of doing mage for better charming and healing and awesome precog death (and field of death sometimes) or sorc for a wide selection of great nukes (electric field, paralyzing death, acid spray mainly)?

Ninja is cool, but I don't value perception at all because of spinnyspinny to ID everything, and it's going to get a lot of quests and require a lot of XP, and half the goal here was avoiding the grind right?


But Im starting to feel bad about hijacking the thread. laugh.gif

Posted by: BLauritson Oct 9 2019, 05:09 PM

QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Oct 9 2019, 01:22 PM) *
But Im starting to feel bad about hijacking the thread. laugh.gif


Please, carry on biggrin.gif

Sadly I don't have much to contribute to this debate but I am enjoying the ideas being discussed.

Posted by: MythrilZenith Oct 10 2019, 02:24 PM

Seeker levels are nice to have when you're being teleported across an unmapped dungeon, but really you only need like 10 seeker levels to get a meaningful (see: 60+) Perception score. Any more than that is just bonus. Even with just 10 levels of Seeker, Gil'Thrialle has been able to map the entire dungeon by herself, can find her direction on most rotators except the deepest ones more often than not, and she already has a solid enough fighting guild (paladin) that she doesn't need the fighting strength. Seeker might be nice for Osiri who have to choose between that and Scavenger for any sort of meaningful A/D, but almost any other race has at least one better fighting option available to them.

That said, Wizard and Seeker are the *only* guilds to get access to Teleport and Displacement naturally. If you only need Ethereal Portal you can get away with only leveling Mage, though, and if you're following OLR then 41 Wizard is enough to get you a halfway-decent casting cost of both EP and Dis, while giving emergency access to Teleport if needed (though the cost is still going to be a hindrance).

I guess in the theoretical "2 guild" run my personal favorite choice is Ninja/Sorcerer because it gives you great melee power, decent enough thieving, good blasting, and the ability to cast any resistance you could want - highly necessary if you're running Human, one of the few races that can run both guilds. The one thing it lacks in is healing, but in a pinch you can always just rely on healing items, though that does mean aging will become a problem especially if you are running solo, and ESPECIALLY if you are running Human. think.gif


Also sorry Lauritson for hijacking the thread laugh.gif

Posted by: Roland Oct 10 2019, 08:57 PM

Thanks for the feedback on my Ninja/Wizard idea (even if it was mostly negative!). I looked over the Wizard's spell list again. They get lots of great spells, but many of them are too expensive to be useful (e.g., Abolish Undead at level 16! WoD and Precog are both cheaper than that!).

Any feedback on my other grind-beating idea - a party of single-guild characters?

Posted by: BLauritson Oct 10 2019, 09:51 PM

QUOTE (Roland @ Oct 10 2019, 09:57 PM) *
Any feedback on my other grind-beating idea - a party of single-guild characters?


If any idea is to work I do think the single-guild character party might actually be the best one smile.gif

I can't comment about the defence limitations because I've not reached the lowest levels yet but at least all the experience for each character would go straight into levelling their guild and no others.

P.S. Sorry BLauritson for hijacking the thread.

Posted by: fischsemmel Oct 11 2019, 10:08 AM

I think nomad+1 could realistically do ok on 15. Warrior, healer, thief, sorc. 175 defense from guild is only 40 less than I usually beat the game with, and you'd get there a lot faster. You won't be lower hits really cause losing some of OLP balances with one guild having higher levels.

Vs an "ideal" party you'd just lack the staying power for a LONG dungeon stay with lower def and (much) worse melee, but you'd still be able to make it work imo.

The most frustrating part for me would be panic buttons when you're always targetted on a character that has no casted spells!


On a similar note, I've actually toyed with the idea of an "all caster" party. Technically all the caster classes get more defense than nomad does. Wizards get nearly as much as the fighting guilds. But it would take soooooo long, laugh.gif. And playing with no thief would be ridiculous. And trying to manage 4 characters that are 90% reliant on spells to kill stuff would be a nightmare of fast button presses.

Posted by: BLauritson Oct 11 2019, 04:50 PM

I suppose depending on which guilds you chose for each character, it wouldn't be too difficult to choose default spells that would be applicable in most situations. Then again I don't know what it's like on the lowest levels so that strategy might only work up to but not including the last 4-5 levels.

For reference, the way I operate my current party (Warrior/Seeker + 3 spellcasters) is to have Mythraxa casting electrical spells by default, with Gnumen and Nothrya casting Leprosy by default. I always have Nothrya selected and so I have a bunch of other spell types in the buffers depending on the monster types encountered (current choices are Poison, Thunderbolt, Dispel Undead and, for those rare occasions where I actually need to blast the hell out of something and deplete most of my mana in doing so, Word of Death).

Again though, perhaps in the lowest levels one needs to be much more reactive with their spell choices? Although there's also the fact that spell costs would be reduced to their minimum much quicker if the grind was focused only on a single guild so perhaps, again for short sharp runs, the biggest blasters could be set as defaults anyway.

Maybe one day I'll actually push down far enough to see for myself what DL 15 is like laugh.gif

Posted by: fischsemmel Oct 11 2019, 05:19 PM

I've never really tested it, but my gut feeling is that needing to rely on the leprosy/static mesh/acidic spray/summon shade "mid tier" sort of spells to clear out anything that isn't trivial will mean you hardly ever get anything accomplished on 13-15 before you need to return to town.

The way to make a "pure" casting party the most effective, imo, might be to also have each caster in thief. That way you can move through the dungeon targetted on different characters during the run without getting robbed blind and surprised in every other room, and can still be able to buffer the exactly right spell for the situation in each room without trying to rapidly switch between characters AND hit buffers. Although I guess thief monsters aren't really the end of the world if you just have gold on you, and not a bunch of nice spheres/cubes/magical dust/etc.

Posted by: MythrilZenith Oct 12 2019, 01:33 AM

Yeah, if you're default-casting spells you're not going to get very far before you have to go back to town. And if you have a fast-respawn bug like I do then chances are you aren't going to be able to progress very deep unless you start running through everything.

I've been thinking about a single-class party, or maybe a Nomad +1 party since I doubt anyone would do a solo Nomad with absolutely no other class. Even if you just take Nomad to 30 for the hits, I don't know how much it would *actually* be a problem. Giants basically have this built-in, being able to only access Warrior and Seeker, but they are such dang effective warriors that they should be able to fight through without issue. Other races might not be as good, but if you're doing single-class then you can't get a better Warrior.
Thief might have some issues in combat, but with maxed out dex and sufficiently high Thief level you should be able to open almost any chest, so they'll be getting at least a decent amount of exp from disarming traps. They would rely on the party for most of their damage, though, and you'd want at least one of your best blasting items on your thief - sash, ring, maybe a Lamurian Crown or the like if you get to late game - because you'll want at least one panic button.
Healer or other spellcaster is gonna have it rough. Weaker melee meaning less exp gained, and higher exp required to level, plus you probably have your Thief selected as primary so it'll be harder to get to your mage for your best panic button. And if you put your caster behind your thief they'll be even *more* exp-starved. That said, at least one solid caster - particularly a healer - is darn-near essential to beating the game. There are enough spellcasting items by floor 15 for you to take on the toughest baddies in the dungeon, but for mobs like Eagles and Gargs you're gonna want some power behind your caster.

The *good* news about running a single-class party is that, with only a few exceptions, you're probably going to be able to use most items you find fairly quickly. The biggest exceptions are some of the mid-late Warrior weapons, like the Dwarven Hammer or Avenger, which can be gotten as early as floors 4 or 7 but require levels exceeding 100 to use. That said, your party is going to be a good deal weaker than a party of mixed-guild adventurers with roughly the same main-class level, so you might need to stay on the upper floors until a higher level before venturing further down.

With that in mind, and especially with the number of solid blasting items available to most classes in the game, I don't think a single-guild-per-member party would be all that difficult to succeed with. They might have to take things a bit slower than a similarly-leveled party with multiple guilds per member, but they'll reach those levels without as much grind. I think they'd be more reliant on items, but then you're just hitting to the same sort of issue as you do with having a solo character - gotta get better equipment to survive deeper down. While you don't get the *strongest* characters imaginable I don't think it would really be all that hard to go through the game with a 3-4 man party of single class characters, so long as you at *least* take them to the recommended Nomad 30.
Please, PLEASE take your thieves and casters to Nomad 30 if nothing else.

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)