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> To korexus- Your homage to mordor, About a free game inspired by M1
korexus
post Mar 13 2011, 04:18 PM
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Thanks for the suggestion!

I'm hoping to use that space at the bottom to represent other places in the area. - This is intended as an online game which can have multiple players sharing the same map, at which point it becomes important to know who's near you. I could put players on a separate tab of the main screen, but so far I've managed to avoid doing that, it would be nice to continue.

You've also put your finger on the other issue with this approach, which is that there is always going to be an upper limit. For many monsters this is not an issue, but some which are devastating in Mordor become pointless if you limit them to 8 in an area. I think something along the lines of your suggestion of only seeing the first few monsters is going to be unavoidable here, although at that point I guess I could leave the scroll bar in place, so those who want to inspect the rest of the group can do so.

I guess I could also reduce the size of the images which would allow me to squeeze more in...


korexus.

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thermopyle
post Mar 14 2011, 02:12 AM
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You're typically only going to have a bunch of the same creature, or a few of one type and lots of another, right? I'd say put the heavier-hitters up front, then the rest is just riff-raff at the back. For example, a slave masher in the first spot, then the other three filled with slaves, etc..

By the way, since you have a graphical representation of the character location, I'd kill the messages stating "You've moved into square X." You may just be using that as a testing, thing, but I though I'd mention it. smile.gif Also, other characters can easily be shown on the map. I'm not sure why you'd want to show them on that main screen as well, unless you're interacting with them directly, which should not be possible when you're in combat or in the room with monsters (you can make the assumption that nobody is going to want to trade in the presence of a group of monsters that could attack at any moment.) If there are no enemies present, then the other character's picture could appear where the normal monsters go, I'd think.
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thermopyle
post Mar 15 2011, 03:42 PM
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What part of the Mordor grouping are you trying to avoid? Keep in mind that many of the spells are designed around that grouping approach.
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korexus
post Mar 15 2011, 07:40 PM
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A few things really. I've gone in to some detail earlier in this thread, so you can check there if you like but it basically breaks down to allowing every monster which can attack the players to also be attackable by the players. A few things about the Mordor system are very much designed with a single player in mind, which is not necessarily the case for a web app. - This is also the reason I'd like to keep players in the display. It will at the least be useful for healing other players during combat, but could also come in handy for player vs player fun and games.

I also mentioned the spells earlier, this is one of the bits I specifically dislike about the grouping model and making them more realistic is probably the main driving force behind doing away with that system...


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aardless
post Mar 15 2011, 10:54 PM
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Well, it ties in with the 8 monsters attacking a single character we talked about up-thread, so showing a second row would be my preference too, if I were to play an on-line game ever again.


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MythrilZenith
post Jun 16 2012, 08:32 PM
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Hey, tried this out and (aside from random frustrations) I'm having some fun! Haven't gotten to the point where multiple monster groups spawn (so far only all of the same, and in one stack), but really enjoying it. Particularly multiple hits on the same monster biggrin.gif

Anyway, some quick questions / concerns I have with the game as-is (these may be being worked on currently, this game may have been completely forgotten, i don't know though).

1. You can't cast spells on yourself! I've leveled up a bit in resistance, but all spells require a "target" and I can't target myself. Is this intended, or just a bug?

2. How do equipment level requirements work? Does it add your character level + skill in that equipment type, or is it something else? I've been able to equip things higher than my level (to a point), but once I start trying mithril it just stops working for me.

3. There's no stat cap, so... how much do stats really affect your character in this? I've been buying Aards like crazy (it's down to 9 last I checked) and I have 38 Str, 42 End, 37 Dex, 30 int, 30 wis, and 23 Cha as a giant... Am I doing it wrong?

4. Quests give WAY more money than it says. I'm not complaining (it's how I fund my Aard binges), but is there any real way to know just how much the quest will actually give you?


Aside from that, this game is really fun, and emulates some of Mordor in a simple, dare I say "casual," way. Great job with it so far!

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Jun 16 2012, 08:33 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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korexus
post Jun 18 2012, 06:06 AM
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Hi MythrilZenith!

Glad you're having fun. To be honest I'd kind of forgotten about this particular project among various other things. (Although not many of them came to much, so maybe I should have stuck with this one!)

I can't remeber all the rules off hand, but this was fun to work on, so if I get a spare evening this week, I may have a dig through and see what I can find. - I may even do some more work, I certainly never finished the game...

Here are the answers that I thnk are correct.

1) I'm pretty sure you can target yourself for healing spells, so if you can't for resistance then this is a bug.

2) Yes, ability to use an item is based on character level and skill level. It's probably just the two added together, but there could have been multipliers involved (level + 2 X skill or something)

3) Correct that there is no stat cap, although there perhaps should be. Your stats affect the same areas as they do in Mordor, albeit in a different way, The formulae for damage etc are known and published on this site, however they are very complicated and could easily be considered DA / Decklin's interlectual property, so I didn't use them. For example, you'll notice three stats that aren't present in Mordor EFF (effectiveness) PATT (Power Attack) and PDEF (Power Defence). These terms I've borrowed from one of the other games on the site, they work as follows: Eff is the ratio of your curent hit points to your maximum hitpoints, PATT is something like (10 * STR + 5 * DEX) * EFF + bonus from items and PDEF is (10 * END + 5 * DEX) * EFF + bonus from items. The idea being that you get less good at fighting as you get more damaged. Monsters have a PATT / PDEF calculated from their other stats, and en EFF which works in the same way. To deal damage you "roll" a number between 0 and you PATT, the monster rolls a number between 0 and its PDEF. If you win the roll then you deal damagae based on the difference. INT, WIS and CHA all affect how many spell points you have (as compared to just INT and WIS in Mordor) and DEX affects how easily you can move through the various terrain types. Not all of that may have been implemented...

4) ISTR that the quest amount is per monster in the group, would that tally with what you're seeing? If not it's probably a bug. Quests were also based on "dangerous" monsters in the area (with "dangerous" being defined as having killed players) I think that some of the resurrection cost for the dead player went into the quest reward, that may not be being displayed. properly.


Glad you're enjoying it. You've probably noticed that character progression is far too quick in the game as it stands, but it's more fun to test if you can move on quickly Any other thoughts you may have on improving the system may spur me to go back and do some work!


korexus.
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MythrilZenith
post Jun 18 2012, 02:21 PM
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Well well, so it isn't completely dead haha!

I think the item equip might be bugged for higher level items, because I've been trying to equip a mithril battleaxe (level 24 required) at level 24, with 12 points in axe weapon skill, and it always says I'm too low of level.

Healing and resistance spells are uncastable on myself (for some reason), it asks for targets but I don't show up as a viable one. I'm not sure if that's because my character data isn't stored properly or something, or what.

I have noticed the PATT and PDEF that go up/down as you get healed/hurt, but I haven't noticed spell points. All spells instead say they cost AP, so I'm a bit hesistant to use them unless I need to. Items with spells don't cost any AP, so I've been downing a ton of those, but there's no way to see how many charges are on an item. That makes it a bit worrisome when you're ring of death suddenly runs out of charges right as you're fighting a really tough enemy group. O_o

Also, I've noticed a bug where if you kill a quest monster with a spell (or at least a spell from an item), the quest isn't completed, but the monsters never respawn until the quest is passed up by other quests. Not sure how to fix that.

Lastly, what exactly does praying to the different gods do? It vaguely hints that it heals you and can give you other, powerful blessings, but every time I go there it says "not enough gold."

Edit: one more thing before I forget. The "Tome of Activity" sounds like a useful item (gives you more AP just for money), but it's worthless. It's a tome, so it costs 100 AP to use, and then it restores 100 AP, basically leaving you the same as before, only several thousand gold poorer sad.gif

Anyway, thanks for reading my comments! I understand if you're busy, and this was probably just a pet project in your spare time anyway, but it's turning out to be pretty fun. In some ways the lack of polish is a bit endearing, like playing an early beta.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Jun 18 2012, 02:27 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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korexus
post Jun 18 2012, 07:30 PM
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Can I confirm which URL you're playing from? In going back to the code, I've rediscovered that I was part way through porting everything to perl (which is probably why I stopped, perl makes my head hurt, but it is definitely better for some things!) For this reply I am going to assume that you are talking about the version available from new.kaomaris.com/RPG/

Looking at the code for that version, I see the following lines:

// 1.37 is ln(400) / ln(80), which allows a level 80 player to use pretty much any item in the game while a level 1 can only use level 1 items.
if (pow($Level,1.37) < $details['Level'])

Which suggests that as a level 24 you should be able to equip any item up to level 77. (It appears that I was wrong about skill adding to this value, although I do like the idea and might add it in.)

There was also an error in getting the value of $Level, which was probably causing your problem. I've fixed that now. Interestingly though, this bug should have stopped you equipping anything with a minimum level, which was presumably not the case?

When I try to cast Minor Heal, I see the name 'korexus' in the select box of targets. Of course I had an account before I created a character, so it's possible that I forgot to populate a database entry in the character creation process. What name did you give your character?

You're correct that spell points come out of your AP (activity points) rather than having a dedicated pool. AP recover naturally over time, so you should have enough for some judiceous spell casting by now. Charges on the items. - Good point. I've added the number.

The quest item spell bug sounds a bit trickier to trace, as several things are being chained together there and the correct check must be being missed at some point. I may have to get a bit more familiar with the code to fix that one.

The pray functuionalityis not yet in place, hence the brief hack always to say you don't have enough gold. I'd have to dig out my notes to remember exactly what each deity was, but it was something like:
Desctruction: increase STR permanently
Chaos: increase PATT temporarily
Balance: boost AP and HP
Order: increase PDEF temporarily
Creation: increase END permanently.

The kicker is that you have an alignement ranging from 0 to 1, and so do the gods. You can pray to any of them, but they will only give you a boost if you are suitably closely aligned (and even then, not always., the chance is based on the size of the donation) If you pray to a go whose alignment does not match yours, your alignment will shift towards theirs by an amount dependent on the donation and your level. I also intended to have certain actions (like attacking a peaced creature) affect your alignment, but pretty much everything seemed to make you evil then! If you are able to see invisible, then you will see an aura around your character. This gives an indication of your current alignment.

Good point on the Tome of activity. Should maybe give more AP. On the other hand, the tome of lies was never much use in Mordor! wink.gif


Early beta is definitely the way to think of this. I'll try to find some time to polish it off a little more!

Thanks,

korexus.
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MythrilZenith
post Jun 18 2012, 07:39 PM
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I'm just playing from http://new.kaomaris.com/RPG/ so hopefully that's not too big of a deal.

Yeah, equipment worked for me up to steel plate, adamantite axe and adamantite helmet, with gauntlets of might, boots of levitation and some accessories. Anything higher just bugs out.

I made an account at the same time I made my character, so my character is just named my account name: "MythrilMalevolence" I'm not sure if that's affecting whether I'm a viable target (too long of a name, not distinct from account, etc.) I don't recall ever being able to name my character something different from my account name, though.

Alignment makes sense, I started out Chaotic and from attacking peaced monsters I've tended towards evil (except for one or two types of monsters which turn me more good for attacking them).


One final minor point: My character pic hasn't updated. I saw the other screenshots of your dwarf with sword & shield, but my giant is still quite unclothed at the moment...



Edit: I just got on and saw that at least the item charge hotfix you did has worked for me, so it looks like I am indeed connected properly to the server.
Edit2: Okay, equipment levels seem to be working as intended now. When I try to cast a spell it still says I'm not a valid target, but I see 4 other people in town that it will allow me to cast a minor heal on.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Jun 18 2012, 08:43 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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korexus
post Jun 21 2012, 09:56 PM
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Hi again.

When you created an account, it will have gone into the new players table. However the check for targets looks in the old players table. When I created the new one, I copied the old data across so the error was not obvious. I've updated two places that looked in the old table, there could easily be more!

Not sure why some items were working, but if everything does now then I won't complain.

Alignment shift for attacking a peaced monster is away from that monster's allignment. (A neutral person attacking an evil monster is doing a good deed, but the more evil you get the harder it becomes to pull away)

I currently have images for bron=ze bracers, bronze chain, bronze shield, iron bracers, iron chain, iron shield, leather, shoes, trenchcoat, trousers, tshirt and wooden shield. If you're using anything else, it probably won't show up. If that disctubs you I can copy the images to new file names so that you're at least wearing something!

I checked my notes on praying, I was nearly right. Desctuction grants a point in a random stat, Creation grants skill points and all of them heal damage, not just neutral.


korexus.
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MythrilZenith
post Jun 21 2012, 11:37 PM
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Ok, thanks for heads up. It's fine on the character icon stuff, I just was wondering why my pic has never changed (although it does seem to refresh every time I have an "alignment shift" moment.)

And magic is castable on myself now! Yay, no more need to keep rebuying potions!

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Jun 21 2012, 11:43 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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korexus
post Jun 22 2012, 01:00 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Jun 21 2012, 11:37 PM) *
Ok, thanks for heads up. It's fine on the character icon stuff, I just was wondering why my pic has never changed (although it does seem to refresh every time I have an "alignment shift" moment.)

And magic is castable on myself now! Yay, no more need to keep rebuying potions!


The refresh will be because your aura is changing, although probably only by a small amount each time.

Let me know if you spot anything else, I think though that I will continue with the "real time" version of this game over the one you are currently using. - It will make for better player-player interaction. If you're still having fun when that's at a testing phase I may come begging! wink.gif


korexus.
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MythrilZenith
post Jun 22 2012, 03:51 PM
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Okay, just ran into a bug. Enemies glitch out when I try to use a banish spell. I select the spell, and then when I select the target they just disappear, and I have to cancel out of the spell for them to appear again. This is a confusing one, not sure if there's a way to really understand it, much less fix it, but I might as well send in the report.


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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korexus
post Jun 23 2012, 01:56 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Jun 22 2012, 04:51 PM) *
Okay, just ran into a bug. Enemies glitch out when I try to use a banish spell. I select the spell, and then when I select the target they just disappear, and I have to cancel out of the spell for them to appear again. This is a confusing one, not sure if there's a way to really understand it, much less fix it, but I might as well send in the report.


You're right, it was a bit odd. Not sure if it's worth explaining in detail, but basically the monster HP check after casting the spell was returning the result in the wrong format. This broke a calculation later on, when the monster tried to attack you back which in turn broke the script entirely, meaning no return value for the adventure or message divs.

Fixing the return value seems to have sorted it, I've just abolished 2 Drukul and been told that the spell does not work on Cocatrice resulting in a dead character for me. - Good thing I have direct database access! ;D


Thanks for the report.

korexus.
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korexus
post Jun 26 2012, 12:31 PM
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For anyone who's interested, here's a screen shot of the current state of 'version 2' of this project.

As mentioned further up the thread, I'm keen to display each monster you're fighting, which is now in place (although it works better for some monsters than others). Mousing over a monster will show its name as title text, clicking on a monster will attack it. The plan is for the fight button to repeatedly attack the front middle monster until there are none left. Selecting a spell will eventually allow you to cast that spell by clicking on the desired target. Spells whose damage affect more than one monster will then spill over to the neighbours of the target, and the neighbours of those neighbours and so on until the damage is used up or maximum targets is reached.



I plan for monsters of different sizes to display as such. I think this could look pretty cool, with a large slave masher or two front middle, surrounded by smaller slaves.

The next challenge on this is how to work out where to position monsters when one is killed. Currently they're just placed in order, which can result in one monster jumping from the left to the right. Ideally I'd like monsters in the back ranks to push forward and fill the gaps, but I haven't yet figured out the logic for that.


korexus.
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aardless
post Jun 28 2012, 03:43 PM
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Wow, hordes of Pinyls!!!! o_O That looks sweet!


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korexus
post Nov 12 2012, 02:43 PM
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Well, I've had a bit more time to look at this, in between other projects such as having a baby (although my wife assures me she did most of the work there sleep.gif ) As I now have occasional hours in the middle of the night when I'm not allowed to sleep, development has actually sped up!

I've managaed to solve the problem of monsters jumping around by assigning them to rows and remembering the position of each within that row. When a monster is killed, one from the row behind will push forward to take its place, which seems to work quite well. This concept of neighbouring has also allowed me to handle spell damage quite neatly. - There are four ways that damage can be dealt by spells, which I've named internally as

(A)llover - damage is dealt equally to [max] monsters in the area, if the spell can deal to more monsters than are around, the rest is wasted. Most damage spells use this
(B)last - damage hits the targeted monster. If it is killed, excess damage is spread evenly among all the neighbours, repeat until damage is used up , [max] monsters have been hit or everything is dead. Most fire spells use this.
©hain - damage hits the targeted monster. If it is killed, excess damage hits a randomly chosen neighbour, repeat until damage is used up, [max] monsters have been hit or everything is dead. Most electricity spells use this.
(D)istributed - damage is split evenly among up to [max] the monsters in the area. Fewer than [max] monsters means each one takes more damage. Most mind spells use this.

Also in place now, is the monsters attacking back. Currently only the first row can attack or be attacked, although I'm wondering about allowing spells to and from the second rank. In a change from Mordor, your character will slowly heal whenever he is not doing anything. I'm thinking of adding an 'accelerate healing' option inside cities, which would allow me to keep the aging effect of healing without needing worry about characters' timelines.

Speaking of which, you can now enter the city. Can't do anything there yet though.


korexus.
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korexus
post Nov 21 2012, 10:46 PM
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I've done item storage and healing at the temple. Then I got bored of the city and had a look at treasure chests.

Chests appear with a flat 10% liklihood. The power of items varies in proprortion to the possible level of monsters in the area (but not necessarily the level of the actual monsters) the items available are tied to the monsters present in a very similar manner to Mordor.

What I was wondering about was gold and item disttibution. In Mordor these are distributed throghout the party, but as I am writing a multiplayer version that doesn't quite line up. - It is possible for an unconnected player to be present when you open a chest and arbitrarily get half the loot. While the player may have had some value, as a target for the monsters to attack, if they showed up right at the end that would be annoying. Another option would be for the player who opened a chest to get the entire contents, and then have the responsibility of sharing it out. This would be more realistic, but might detract from gameplay as players have to assign items manually.


Any thoughts?

korexus.
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smiley
post Nov 25 2012, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE (korexus @ Nov 21 2012, 11:46 PM) *
I've done item storage and healing at the temple. Then I got bored of the city and had a look at treasure chests.

Chests appear with a flat 10% liklihood. The power of items varies in proprortion to the possible level of monsters in the area (but not necessarily the level of the actual monsters) the items available are tied to the monsters present in a very similar manner to Mordor.

What I was wondering about was gold and item disttibution. In Mordor these are distributed throghout the party, but as I am writing a multiplayer version that doesn't quite line up. - It is possible for an unconnected player to be present when you open a chest and arbitrarily get half the loot. While the player may have had some value, as a target for the monsters to attack, if they showed up right at the end that would be annoying. Another option would be for the player who opened a chest to get the entire contents, and then have the responsibility of sharing it out. This would be more realistic, but might detract from gameplay as players have to assign items manually.


Any thoughts?

korexus.


interesting problem, not many games where your character can kill stuff (or act as a target) without player controll.
well. I'd share loot amongst online players. if you find stuff for your mate, you can just manually give him that one item.
or maybe consider that the player chooses between having a party with his own characters - or - having a party with someone who is online.
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