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> Recording a Mordor run - solo good elf!
fischsemmel
post Jul 26 2019, 02:35 PM
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Omg. So many rings of entrapment!
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MythrilZenith
post Jul 26 2019, 03:42 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Jul 26 2019, 08:35 AM) *
Omg. So many rings of entrapment!


Yeah, somehow they've been quite common. Still no Elven Rings, and I lost a Ring of Death, but Ring of Entrapment (n) has been a pretty common drop from the lake on 7, somehow. I also have 1-2 Rings of Teleportation and a couple Rings of Disruption, though that is dwarfed by the sheer number of *totally* useful rings of Invisibility and Levitation.


--------------------
Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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Roland
post Jul 26 2019, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Jul 26 2019, 10:22 AM) *
I also found my first Lamurian Shock Lance (courtesy of Mom), which I sold to the shop, but for some reason isn't being stocked? It only had 20 uses on it, so maybe the shop has a higher minimum uses required to stock? Or maybe the shock lance can't be stocked, like the Medusa Head? Either way, I'm a bit sad that I sold it now. Not that it would be a *great* weapon, but it might be a decent way to bring down Mom without spending 30 SP on EF.

The standard number of charges on the Lamurian Shock Lance is 30. So if you sell the store one with fewer charges it will not be stocked.

Damage from a Lamurian Shock Lance depends on the user's level. At the minimum use level it will do 156-313. It tops out at 373-747.
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fischsemmel
post Jul 26 2019, 08:45 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Jul 26 2019, 11:42 AM) *
Yeah, somehow they've been quite common. Still no Elven Rings, and I lost a Ring of Death, but Ring of Entrapment (n) has been a pretty common drop from the lake on 7, somehow. I also have 1-2 Rings of Teleportation and a couple Rings of Disruption, though that is dwarfed by the sheer number of *totally* useful rings of Invisibility and Levitation.


Yeah, I have a bunch of the useless ones too. I think 3-4 of each Frost and flame, 1 elven, 2 entrapment. Still ca t believe my osirri never found either of those. If he had found an RoE, I might not ever have wanted to try a mage!
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MythrilZenith
post Jul 26 2019, 10:40 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Jul 26 2019, 02:45 PM) *
Yeah, I have a bunch of the useless ones too. I think 3-4 of each Frost and flame, 1 elven, 2 entrapment. Still ca t believe my osirri never found either of those. If he had found an RoE, I might not ever have wanted to try a mage!


Wait, rings of flame exist? blink.gif
Eh, not that they're that much better than Ring of Frost. Hits less hard and on a more common resistance, but also can be cast on Peaced enemies, so that's a plus.

I didn't know elven rings even existed before you found yours. Entrapment is good, level 90 is pretty solid for most Soul Entrapment targets until pretty deep. Disruption is decent but pretty specific on what you'd actually want to cast Draining Touch on. Teleportation is perhaps the most widely useful particularly for deep dungeon runs, at the very least as an emergency "get me out of here" button, but all things considered it's more a utility item than a combat tool (even though teleport can be used in combat like a mid-tier Kill spell).

Protection is just a ring with no spell. Venom adds poison resistance but gets out-classed by the Unicorn Horn. Invisibility and Levitation would have been cool had they passively granted the ability, but because they just granted spell charges they really only save like 2-3 spell points per trip with them (assuming they don't have another item that grants the spell anyway).

So yeah, Flame, Frost and Entrapment are probably my top picks for rings, with Teleportation getting a special mention for people interested in skipping around the dungeon.


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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Roland
post Jul 27 2019, 02:02 AM
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My Morloch doesn't have much of a choice regarding rings. He can't cast Soul Entrapment unless he's wearing Ring of Splendour. Last night he got drained for a point of cha and couldn't cast it!
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MythrilZenith
post Jul 30 2019, 06:04 PM
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No Mordor Monday video this week, I"m totally lost in Three Houses and also had several meetings to go to in regards to college stuff.

Yeah, Friday was the last time I played Mordor. I'll probably get right back into it once I finish my Fire Emblem binge, but for now the run is on hold for about a week or two. I have been thinking about the best way to approach the dungeon, though. Currently I'm not really doing much creative exploring, since I use up my spell points and/or pin before I can do much more than hit some of the hot-spots and climb my way out. Once I switch back over to Sorcerer, though, I'll have more potential experience gain to work with, meaning more exploration can happen.

I'm currently in the height of Paladin grinding, though. I just passed the point where I get an A/D increase every 6 levels, so now I get one every 7. That's still not that bad of a rate, and I've actually noticed the extra attack power in more consistently killing several monsters I used to only have iffy chances of 1-shotting, notably Kyu Hotas. (yes my elf is that weak that I struggle to kill a Hota in melee with one shot with reliability).

I also stared a bit too long at Seth's info tool during a slow period at work, and noticed the pattern for A/D growth of Paladin is something to the effect of 3/3, 3/4, 3/3, 3/4, 3/4. So every A/D increase (for Paladin at least) gives 3 Attack and 3.6 Defense, if we consider a visible increase as only occurring at whole integer values.


--------------------
Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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MythrilZenith
post Aug 6 2019, 06:23 PM
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So I very nearly recorded a Mordor video yesterday, but ended up getting distracted by other things. I *have* begun to get back into the grind, though, now that I've finished one of the routes of Three Houses and kind of want to savor that game a bit.

I'm losing fringe equipment to slime traps that I *really* shouldn't be opening, so at this point I'm going to make a note to actually pay attention to trap types and not open risky chests unless it's from a target priority monster like Mom. Just yesterday I got a Mithril Helmet and Gauntlets of Power eaten by slime traps, but luckily I had a second helmet and also just found Mithril Gauntlets, so a perfect chance to upgrade!

Speaking of upgrades, I just found a Staff of Helarno from Mom. At the same time, though, I really like the extra swing and super common backstabs from the Vampire Fang. Sure, it loses out on a couple of points of defense and a 0.1 modifier, making it worse vs deeper-dwelling monsters, but those things I'm mostly blasting with spells anyway, and I prefer being able to kill 5 small monsters per round instead of 4 (the efficiency-whore in me cringes whenever I leave one monster alive following a group and need to take an extra round to kill them off). It's a SUPER minor thing, and ultimately I'd agree I'm probably better off with an Avenger or Staff of Helarno, but I just love extra swings. Probably why I always tried rushing for Ninja when I was a kid playing this game, back before I knew anything about OLR or the like.

Still just bouncing around floor 12, but I feel like I could move down to floor 13 at any time. I'm 215 Paladin right now, which should give me enough base A/D to survive down there. Whenever I run into a T'Mana and its flock of Silent Eagles on floor 11/12 it takes more than a single hit of PD to down the flock, though, so I might want to grind up more Sorcerer levels when I start going deeper.

With how much I've been getting randomly drained by Shuman Munsae and the Vampire, I definitely am running low on tomes and potions. That said, I have a full store of 9/9/9 Aards, so I really shouldn't worry too much. What's more worrying is that I"m approaching age 30, so I would REALLY like to find some dragon's blood. It doesn't matter that much because I'm an Elf, but it still is always a back-of-my-mind worry that I'll start dying too deep for my rescuers to save me.


--------------------
Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Aug 6 2019, 11:49 PM
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Drains on 10+ definitely suck. All the precautions in the world don't stop them, just slow them down. You'll settle into the habit of never opening slimes eventually though, haha. I don't even open most withering or teleports either (since I haven't explored all of any floor below 8 yet!).

I have been unimpressed with my staff of helarno. Probably a good call ignoring it. I think the critical hit or backstab chance on is easily underrated on weps infavor of a/d or ratio. A crit or BS usually means you kill something even when a good normal hit wouldn't have. That's pretty clutch imo.
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Roland
post Aug 7 2019, 01:55 AM
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Note that the quality of a weapon's crit or backstab ability depends on the level of the weapon. So a Vamp Fang's level-13 backstab bonus is better than an Avenger's level-7 crititcal hit bonus.

IIRC, critical hit does twice as much bonus damage as an otherwise equal backstab, but backstab kicks in more often. The bonus damage from crit and/or backstab is added to the normal damage - they're all "rolled" independently.
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MythrilZenith
post Aug 7 2019, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (Roland @ Aug 6 2019, 07:55 PM) *
Note that the quality of a weapon's crit or backstab ability depends on the level of the weapon. So a Vamp Fang's level-13 backstab bonus is better than an Avenger's level-7 crititcal hit bonus.

IIRC, critical hit does twice as much bonus damage as an otherwise equal backstab, but backstab kicks in more often. The bonus damage from crit and/or backstab is added to the normal damage - they're all "rolled" independently.


If the sample info at the bottom of "Character attack formulas" in the Spoilers section is correct ( http://dejenol.com/index.php?title=Character_Attack_Formulas ) then it seems that innate backstab on weapons is roughly twice as much as innate crit, and since in the formula it is added after the subtraction for monster level, then innate backstab is always going to be quite often.

At a floor level 13, I'd expect roughly 1 in 10 attacks to be backstabs, not counting the bonus from Scavenger's guild (which at this depth my Scav 200 is mostly counteracted by monster stats). If that's a 10% chance for, let's just say an extra 50% damage (I can't find any solid info for just how much bonus damage a backstab/crit actually does), then that can make me kill a monster in 2 hits that I would otherwise take 3, or sometimes 1-shot a monster that's just out of 1-shot range. Naturally the base damage roll still matters (I've recently clocked my low damage rolls around 28, and lowest backstab I've done around 44), but a better chance to do some bonus damage is (in my mind) better than a smaller chance to do even MORE bonus damage.

And then there's the innate Crit and Backstab Glvl bonuses giving me Sever chance, which normally procs only on monsters I'd already kill with either-or but still makes a cool sound effect diablo.gif


Speaking of damage calculation, I feel like I deal less damage to some monsters than others. I know that Monster defense doesn't count when figuring out chance-to-hit (meaning there's only ever a 2.5% miss chance, though it definitely feels a lot more common for low level chars). However, does monster defense actually work to reduce damage taken? Apparently it's still taken into account in the "crit/BS avoidance" formula, unless it literally is counting the hidden "monster level" stat.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Aug 7 2019, 08:30 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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Roland
post Aug 8 2019, 10:54 PM
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I have the attack formulas programmed into an Excel file. I'll run average damage for my Dwarf Seeker/Thief/Sorcerer, Frar, under different scenarios and see what comes out.

Vampire Fang 135
Dagger of Swiftness 137
Sword of Slaying 135
Vorpal Blade 127
Lightning Blade 133

If we add a critical hit bonus to the Vorpal Blade, average damage rises to 132. If, instead, we add backstab, average damage only rises to 131.

Sticking with the Vorpal Blade, if we remove Frar's crit and stab bonuses, average damage falls to 114. With crit only, average damage is 122. With stab only, average damage is 120. This despite that fact that his backstab ability is 9 (from Thief) and his crit ability is only 3 (from Seeker). With a Warrior's crit bonus of 9, average damage would rise to 128.

Conclusion: Critical hit adds more damage, on average, than an otherwise equal backstab.

In the formula, I see two differences between the two. First, in the Damage Mod, crit adds +5, while stab adds +2. Second, the probability formula for crit ends with a multiplier of ln(10)=2.3, while the equivalent multiplier in the stab formula is ln(100)=4.6. So backstab will kick in roughly twice as often as critical hit, but critical hit will add more than twice the damage of backstab.


Some other useful facts:

On average, +16 attack translates to +1 damage.

The impact of strength on damage is not continuous. Every third point of strength gives a large jump in damgage. The jumps come at strengths of 25, 28, 31, 34, 37, 40, etc. (I take advantage of this knowledge to choose gloves/gauntlets and bracers to trade off strength and dexterity when I have excess strength.)
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MythrilZenith
post Aug 9 2019, 12:10 AM
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All very useful information! Thanks Roland ok.gif

So the flat damage ratio, all else being equal, means the average damage of a crit weapon is superior to an equivalently-leveled backstab weapon, all else being equal. That said, on an individual monster basis, one may argue that situationally Backstab may be more useful, because it procs more often despite adding less damage, so in instances where you only need a small damage boost to kill it's preferable to get backstab, but for overall damage dealt (if you're going to be slugging it out in melee for several rounds, for instance) then crit is superior, again all else being equal.


--------------------
Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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MythrilZenith
post Aug 12 2019, 09:00 PM
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Another Monday, another video! https://youtu.be/MRxLSgP2j-0

So apparently yesterday was the 5th anniversary of my solo elf, Gil'Thrialle! That's right, it's her 5th birthday!
Okay, so there were like 2 years in there where I didn't touch Mordor at all, and I definitely started the grind REALLY slow (only playing on video for a long time, until I realized that was just unreasonable), but it's crazy to think that this character has been around for over a fifth of my life. Like, WHAT?
Still, to celebrate I commissioned a character portrait from one of my artist friends! I really like how it turned out, and she got quite a few of my requested details really solid! I don't have a URL for the image, so just watch the video if you want to see the art.

I'm exploring floor 13 decently well and not having too much trouble. Part of me wants to find a path onto 14, but I still have a LOT of 13 (and a decent amount of 12) left to explore, and I want to do that before I get too far ahead of myself.

I just found out also that apparently the upper stairs from 12 to 13 take you to a tiny area that has no connections to the rest of 13. I mean, I get that by this point the dungeon is meant to start becoming unpredictable, but I still just have to ask why this is even there at all. It's not even an interesting portion of 13, it's just a flat straightaway with a couple of doors on either side.

Still grinding up Paladin, I'm probably going to get decently high up in that before I switch over to Sorcerer. I've really been noticing the extra fighting skill paying strong dividends, and I've gone on tours as deep as 13 and only taken a few hundred hits worth of damage. That said, I'm still being HARD carried by my Sorcerer spells, so I'm definitely going to get that 313 at some point before I start exploring the deepest depths of Dejenol.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Aug 12 2019, 09:07 PM


--------------------
Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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Roland
post Aug 12 2019, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Aug 12 2019, 05:00 PM) *
I just found out also that apparently the upper stairs from 12 to 13 take you to a tiny area that has no connections to the rest of 13. I mean, I get that by this point the dungeon is meant to start becoming unpredictable, but I still just have to ask why this is even there at all. It's not even an interesting portion of 13, it's just a flat straightaway with a couple of doors on either side.

Three of the rooms along the northern hallway of 13 can spawn Mythicals.
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Roland
post Aug 12 2019, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Aug 12 2019, 05:00 PM) *
So apparently yesterday was the 5th anniversary of my solo elf, Gil'Thrialle! That's right, it's her 5th birthday!

Happy birthday!

QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Aug 12 2019, 05:00 PM) *
Still, to celebrate I commissioned a character portrait from one of my artist friends! I really like how it turned out, and she got quite a few of my requested details really solid! I don't have a URL for the image, so just watch the video if you want to see the art.

Nice avatar! Everyone has some idea what an Elf looks like. But Morloch, not so much. So a portrait of Aelric would require a lot more description.
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MythrilZenith
post Aug 12 2019, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (Roland @ Aug 12 2019, 03:38 PM) *
Three of the rooms along the northern hallway of 13 can spawn Mythicals.


Oooooooohhhhhh

*makes note to add those rooms into regular rotation*

QUOTE (Roland @ Aug 12 2019, 03:47 PM) *
Nice avatar! Everyone has some idea what an Elf looks like. But Morloch, not so much. So a portrait of Aelric would require a lot more description.


Morloch is a term I've only ever heard 2 places - Mordor, and that old story I *think* was called "The Time Machine." One of the earliest time travel science fiction stories ever.

Personally, the fact that Mordor describes Morlochs as "Hulking masses of fur and muscle" doesn't exactly mesh well with the fact that they have a freaking 15 con cap for seemingly no reason. But then again, nothing about Morlochs makes that much sense, so :shrug:

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Aug 12 2019, 09:58 PM


--------------------
Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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Roland
post Aug 12 2019, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Aug 12 2019, 05:55 PM) *
Morloch is a term I've only ever heard 2 places - Mordor, and that old story I *think* was called "The Time Machine." One of the earliest time travel science fiction stories ever.

Personally, the fact that Mordor describes Morlochs as "Hulking masses of fur and muscle" doesn't exactly mesh well with the fact that they have a freaking 15 con cap for seemingly no reason. But then again, nothing about Morlochs makes that much sense, so :shrug:

Yes, I think The Time Machine must be the original source of the name - though Wells spelled it "Morlock". But Mordor's description does not match that of Wells, who described them as having dull skin and red eyes, and which were apparently smaller and weaker than humans of our time.

In Avatar, from which Mordor's races and guilds were lifted, Morlochs were the only race with the "amphibious" ability, so I used to think of them as fish-like. Inspired by that ability, I once created a Morloch Villian named Aqualung, after the Jethro Tull song!
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MythrilZenith
post Aug 13 2019, 07:30 PM
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Huh. I'm gonna have to see if I can look into Avatar, then. From how you're describing it it sounds pretty interesting.

So I just found my first Lamurian Ring and Holy Sword! Too bad the Holy Sword is unusable by elves (freaking 21 base str requirement. Not sure why they were so afraid of SPECIFICALLY Elf paladins since any other race that can be a paladin can use it). Sure, the holy sword isn't a great weapon (1.6 damage, 3 swings) but the resists and minor heal charges would have been at least convenient if nothing else. I *do* already have drain res from my cloak, though, and that isn't looking to change anytime soon, especially now that I have a Silver Cloak.

Lamurian Ring has 9 defense, which isn't too bad. I personally prefer the spell charges on my Ring of Entrapment (or the convenience of Ring of Teleportation once I get comfortable enough to actually mess with teleport because right now that's the scariest thing in the game to me), but it wouldn't be a bad alternative option.

Still no dragon's blood, and I'm fast approaching age 32. As an elf I shouldn't be *that* bothered by this, but Mordor always makes the age thing feel like something of a doom clock - if you aren't at least conscious of it, you will eventually succumb to it.

I haven't visibly rolled below like around 40 in damage in quite some time. Might be because I hit 28 str from my Mithril Gauntlets, might be because I just passed 300 Atk (and 360 def) only a bit ago. I've also clocked a solid 100+ normal attack on a Hero, so my damage ceiling isn't looking too bad either. I've taken to just melee'ing down mobs that don't have scary spells, drain abilities, paralysis, breath weapons, electrocution, high crit chance, or come in large groups... Which basically just leaves things like Defenders, Heroes, Iron Bears, and thieves. Or lone witches, provided I don't have any companions, as my other resistances mean I'm only taking around 10 or so damage per spell cast, and most of the time they end up just flubbing a Flesh to Stone or something on me.
Genies worry me since they can still hit for 20-40 with WoD even through my natural elven magic resistance of 80%. It's starting to tempt me into casting full-on magic resistance on myself, just for that final 15% - which technically would be a 75% reduction from what I'm already taking... think.gif


A bit of a question regarding the Mother of Serpents - or rather, the room right in front of her. The laired monster maps say that that room is supposed to spawn Shadow Serpents, but in all the times I've visited it it NEVER spawns ANYTHING. Just that room. Is that normal? Does that happen to anyone else?

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Aug 13 2019, 07:32 PM


--------------------
Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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Roland
post Aug 13 2019, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Aug 13 2019, 03:30 PM) *
A bit of a question regarding the Mother of Serpents - or rather, the room right in front of her. The laired monster maps say that that room is supposed to spawn Shadow Serpents, but in all the times I've visited it it NEVER spawns ANYTHING. Just that room. Is that normal? Does that happen to anyone else?

Yes, that's one of several rooms that I always find empty. Another is at 1,6,9.
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