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> Recording a Mordor run - solo good elf!
fischsemmel
post Sep 12 2019, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Sep 12 2019, 12:25 PM) *
ESPECIALLY IF SHE SPAWNS PEACED OMG


Do you have much luck hitting a fast-casting spell then EF before the former actually casts? I can get it to work about 3/4 of the time or maybe a bit better.
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Roland
post Sep 12 2019, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Sep 12 2019, 01:53 PM) *
Do you have much luck hitting a fast-casting spell then EF before the former actually casts? I can get it to work about 3/4 of the time or maybe a bit better.

I often hit buffer 5 (Dazzle) and then immediately hit buffer 4 (Soul Entrapment) to charm peaced monsters. I can't remember the last time it failed.
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 12 2019, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Sep 12 2019, 11:53 AM) *
Do you have much luck hitting a fast-casting spell then EF before the former actually casts? I can get it to work about 3/4 of the time or maybe a bit better.


I don't know if it's because I'm running in Windows inside Dosbox that the emulation buffering prevents it or what, but I've *never* been able to get that to work. Is there a faster way to use buffers? I always just use shift + the number key.
And does it matter if it's buffered from an item or from an actual spell? Like, if I'm casting Static Mesh from a static sash and trying to switch to EF, will that be different than if I cast SM from a spell buffer and then replace with EF?

The timing is also unspecific. Sometimes things happen gosh-dang IMMEDIATELY when I press the key vs a peaced mob, other times it gives me half a second to think about it, but either way I have a hard time actually getting any sort of shift active. Heck, I sometimes have issues changing my action between combat rounds - I push 3-4 times on the 'F'ight key whenever I'm changing from a buffer, and whenever I cast from a buffer I sometimes have to push it twice to get it to work - which then means sometimes I switch attack groups instead of spells if it doesn't register my Shift input.

Needless to say, peaced mobs are the bane of my existence as a Good-aligned character who relies on their high-level spells to kill anything remotely tough. I've only run into one Griffin in my life, but that was pretty nerve-wracking as I knew I'd need to survive an entire round of combat before being able to unleash a Paralyzing Death on all those mundragons.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Sep 12 2019, 09:26 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 12 2019, 10:05 PM
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I use buffer slots and/or u key for highlighted item, but am playing in Vista (somehow it works with no shenanigans).

The delay may be because of peaced vs hostile. If you enter a room against a hostile creature, you have like half a second or so (?) to select or even change options before it resolves. If you enter against a peaced monster, it's a lot faster (to the point where pressing F instantly happens). But with my setup I still can use shift+X to "aggro" a peaced monster with like leprosy then switch with shift+y to word of death kr whatever.

On a related note, I had a bug with the game once when I came out of sleep mode with the game still open where it played at like tripke speed. laugh.gif. It was fun while it lasted cause solo melee resolution went by really fast!

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Sep 12 2019, 10:06 PM
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Roland
post Sep 12 2019, 11:09 PM
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I run Mordor under Windows XP. I only use that machine for gaming and image storage - I turned off the wifi a few years ago.

I have sometimes experienced the triple-speed melee resolution. It really speeds up those Giant Crocodile encounters!
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korexus
post Sep 14 2019, 12:05 AM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Sep 12 2019, 11:05 PM) *
On a related note, I had a bug with the game once when I came out of sleep mode with the game still open where it played at like tripke speed. laugh.gif. It was fun while it lasted cause solo melee resolution went by really fast!


Not strictly speaking a bug with the game, more an artifact of CPU clocks.

If a machine detects that it's clock is a bit behind, rather than just adjusting the time (which can cause all sorts of bugs in badly written software) it speeds up its clock until it has caught up. This means that anything which is relying on clock ticks to make events happen will trigger them more frequently until the clock has caught up (avoiding aforementioned bugs) but looks very odd if you're watching it.

It's usually seen when a paused VM is restarted, but it could happen coming out of sleep mode I guess. The behaviour varies depending on how big the time lag is, so it would be tricky to trigger this effect to speed up encounters without wasting an equivalent amount of time pausing the machine.

korexus.

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MythrilZenith
post Sep 19 2019, 02:27 PM
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Strictly speaking, I should *never* claim that I have "more time and will be able to record and update more frequently." Because that's exactly when I'm going to get sick or otherwise lose all that time that I had just opened.

Not been able to play much this week. Still grinding Sorcerer up - only around 262 right now, so got a good 50 levels to go. I've been messing around with alternate routes through the dungeon that might focus on bigger EXP gain - in particular hitting up the lake on 11 as opposed to just sticking to the graveyard (mostly because I'm sick and tired of getting drained by Liches, so much so that I'm seriously considering switching back to the Ring of Entrapment), but the lake hasn't seemed that great unless I run into a ton of 4x Hammerhead packs. Because I need nearly 200k exp for each level (and my exp gain as a whole is pretty low considering I just passed 25M in sorc alone), I struggle to actually get to level-up status before draining my SP unless I run into a string of very exp-heavy monsters, like Asteryex or silent/golden eagles. Maybe I should consider hitting up the Slither room on 14, but the last two times I went there it was inhabited only by a Daemon Lord.
Other places I've considered are the lake on 13 (because of high quantities of 4x Lamurian Outcast groups, whom I can down with a single ParDeath as opposed to soldiers, scouts or guards), or even hitting up the lake on 14, but the risk of hitting a dragon turtle and instantly dying has me on edge, and the sheer number of guards and soldiers on 14 makes that place really hard to level in when I don't have a good melee weapon, my spells are ineffective most of the time, and they still hit me more often than not.

Right now I feel the big difference between routes optimized for items (Pariah routes (still have never seen one in my life), the graveyard for blood, etc) and routes optimized for exp (lakes, Slithers). I really want better items (technically mom can drop a lot of upgrades for me still but she's not really been doing much of that as of late), but right now I need to just grind out sorcerer as fast as possible so I can get back to a set that has good A/D, good melee combat, and a higher overall level for spell damage.

Any suggestions on better places to focus on?

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Sep 19 2019, 02:29 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 19 2019, 03:40 PM
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No especially bright ideas here, just general advice from my couple solo runs:

My solo guys always just ran pariah rooms 12-14 with visits to 11 lake (or maybe quick trips through goblins, cockatrice, twisted elf, and 7 lake looking for rings and aards) while pariah route respawned. Then when I was tough enough I'd visit 15 pariah rooms and clear as many non-stud rooms there as I can instead of doing anything on 1-11.

I always super duper prioritized finding blessings because of how amazing they are, and figured even if exp feels slow sometimes, it's still more efficient overall to get ok exp while maximizing chances of pariahs than to get somewhat more exp but no pariah chances.

That slither room on 14 is only maybe 1/4 or 1/3 chance of seeing slithers it feels like. Nice when you get them but gotta nuke that daemon lord asap to avoid aging when he is there. My mage always went in with field of death and it'd kill stuff either way.

If you are comfortable enough handling gargantuan and golden eagle groups on 14, you can do the non-stud rooms on 15 too (I think the northwest corner stud room is safe though, iirc. It cant spawn devils, demons, OR undead, but it's also a pariah room with a little chance of a black gremlin too). I don't have the dragon turtle mod, but even if you just go around the rooms on the west side of 15, you can find more pariah rooms, dragon king and queen, magi lord (staff and cross!), and more. The higher level stuff is nicer exp, and there are a few more slither rooms (though screw that antimagic slither room, especially when it has those scorpion dudes in it instead). It's just a matter of whether you can get down there, fight around, and still get back to town safely.


If you have money to spare, use dalyns groan and recharge it to prolong your stays at the lower levels. Just make sure you keep more fate potions/dust and/or healing items and/or scrolls/tomes of spells too incase you get a bad roll on fate. You can temporarily unequip dex and wis gear when opening fate traps to try to increase your odds of triggering them too (I think), and save opening them until you would be about to go back to town cause of low sp but before you use consumables/recharges.

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Sep 19 2019, 03:44 PM
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 19 2019, 04:35 PM
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Never encountered Gargantuans yet - from their stats they don't *look* like they'd be too much worse than golden eagles, though I guess it depends on just how many spawn at a time.

As for your 12-14 Pariah route, that's a Traveling Salesman problem if I've ever seen one - one interrupted by random teleport traps and the like, but a traveling salesman problem nonetheless. Which rooms/clusters do you focus on more than others? Or are easier to work into your route? I need to study those maps more, but with how fast my dungeon respawns (plus the fact that I often don't play long enough for more than a few runs right now) I don't really have the time to hit up every single potential Mythical room on the map before they start respawning.


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 19 2019, 05:22 PM
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Gargantuans tend to be in 2-3 groups of 2-4 each I think. They're fairly more dangerous imo; a little higher attack and a lot higher strength, plus at 500 average hits it's easy to get unlucky (or just not be high enough level) and your spell doesn't wipe out a stack like you want.

"My" pariah route is zip down to most using 4-6 teleporters, stairs to 7, chute to 10, chute to 13, fight down through fog and clear all the rooms in the east and south, drop to 14 and hit the rooms I can reach before I need to ethereal portal, then portal/displace through the 3 corner areas that have rooms. I probably return to town at this point then get the rooms on 12-13 I missed the first time by getting to 10 then walking down to MoS, possibly skipping her and often just running last floor 12 monsters unless they can stone. Then I go back down to 15 and get what I can there, focused on pariah rooms but usually clearing more too if I can handle it.

At lower levels I'd start at MoS and walk my way down instead of starting on 13.

You have to be pretty badass to be able to fight through all the rooms on 12-14 before 12 respawns, but delaying visiting the start of the route if it means upgrades from 15 is worth it once you can do 15 imo.

Be careful of teleport traps on 14 since you can get teleported in on gargantuans or golden eagles when not expecting it, and just leave teleport traps alone all together on 15 unless it's a pariah/black gremlin chest. Teleporting into a stud room on 15 is a great way to die horribly, especially when you don't have the whole place mapped yet, laugh.gif


Edit - oh, and the mythical spawn location maps on the wiki aren't 100% accurate. There's a few wrong and a few not shown iirc, based on using braindeads map editor.

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Sep 19 2019, 05:45 PM
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Roland
post Sep 19 2019, 08:51 PM
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I just checked the library. In my dungeon, Gargantuans have been responsible for 9 character deaths (out of 30 total deaths), while Golden Eagles are not associated with a single character death. Gargants' greater strength and attack makes them very dangerous.

Unfortunately, Gargantuans don't make great companions. Their low defense makes them hard to keep alive. Golden Eagles are much better for that purpose.
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 19 2019, 11:10 PM
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Just met my first group of gargantuans, in the stud room in the fog on 13. Yeah, they're pretty beastly, though their lack of resistances mean any spell I throw at them can get through.

Which raises an interesting question - are the calculations on spell damage in Seth's Spell Cost Guide accurate? Because I don't see any sort of intelligence value listed there, but in the raw spell damage formula found here http://dejenol.com/index.php?title=Spell_Damage_Formula it says that the spell power is modified by int.

I only raise the question because the data it has on the spells kind of blows my mind. Like... I get that Electric Field is a 10/51 spell, compared to something like Arctic Storm's 42/21 (or what have you, so I would assume that Arctic Storm would have higher damage at lower int (and spell level, since the power value increments linear on SL but the base increments on the natural log), but from every consideration it looks like Electric Field is the king of damage spells, behind only Flesh to Stone, the ineffable WoD itself, and Soul Entrapment. It's close in damage up until somewhere around SL150 where it kind of just rockets ahead of everything else.

But I'm wondering if those calculations are correct because the INT part of the calculation doesn't seem visible. If the system is counting int as something incredibly high then that makes sense, but if it's counting it as 1 or something then DANG the scaling on SL alone is crazy, and ideally I should have the strongest spells because of the highest possible INT.


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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Roland
post Sep 19 2019, 11:41 PM
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In the spell damage formula, I think INT means integer, not intelligence. For some reason, the game's formulae often round to integer values for intermediate computations.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 20 2019, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE (Roland @ Sep 19 2019, 07:41 PM) *
In the spell damage formula, I think INT means integer, not intelligence. For some reason, the game's formulae often round to integer values for intermediate computations.


Omg. This game's formulae. It took me years of playing SERIOUSLY before I learned some of the notations. Like exp in the trap disarm formula... laugh.gif

Back in the day it definitely ways annoyed me that int and Wis (well, sight) weren't factors in spell damage though.

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Sep 20 2019, 12:46 AM
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 20 2019, 02:33 AM
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QUOTE (Roland @ Sep 19 2019, 05:41 PM) *
In the spell damage formula, I think INT means integer, not intelligence. For some reason, the game's formulae often round to integer values for intermediate computations.


...
...
...
is my entire life a lie? unsure.gif

Well then, it seems like the second number is MUCH more important than the first number in spells, then. Rather, the first number determines where the spell starts at, but the second determines where it can go.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Sep 20 2019, 02:34 AM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 22 2019, 03:39 AM
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I just learned some new stuff. Particularly...
1. Every time you get drained, you lose 1 max HP, even if the drain doesn't actually take a stat (rare but it happens). So over the course of my sorcerer leveling, my max HP has slowly dwindled from 977 to 969.
EDIT: Wait I just got drained for another Con point and didn't lose any HP... Maybe it's only certain monster's drain attacks that drain hp? Like liches?
2. My issue with not being able to switch-cast? That's the same issue with my emulation that prevents me from holding shift-down to run back and forth in place. For some reason, as soon as I hit another key, they shift input is forgotten - I need to release shift and press it again in order to use another shift-input. In doing this I have managed to occasionally switch-cast from Acidic Spray to Electric Field, though it isn't a guaranteed thing as I still sometimes cast immediately against peaced enemies.
3. I should be going to the Slither room more often - not only is it a perfect place to drain my Static sashes, but I can just sit there and gain dozens of thousands of exp in just a few rounds of combat, with little to no danger to myself outside of, y'know, actually GETTING there. (and the chance of daemon lord).
4. Pariahs aren't actually real. I've seen a million golden centaurs, but the fabled Pariah has yet to reveal itself. Plus the odds of it actually dropping a blessing are so freaking low (one item of 10 in their drop list) that I'm about giving up hope to ever actually find a blessing. wallbash.gif

I also just found my second Dragon's Blood - from a spectral dragon on 14 - and quaffed it as soon as I got it back to town. Gil'Thrialle is now under 40 years old for the first time in a long while. ok.gif

I've also gained a ton of exp over the course of my power-leveling. I'm over 31 million total in Sorcerer now, and sitting at level 298. Just 15 away from minimum cost EF - it's strange just how a reduction of 3-4 points feels so much better. Casting at 12 feels *sooooo* much better than casting at 15.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Sep 22 2019, 04:39 AM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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Roland
post Sep 22 2019, 05:26 AM
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If you have trouble with casting attack spells at peaced monsters, here's the foolproof solution: run a Morloch! Their charisma is so low that no monster will stay peaced for long.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 22 2019, 05:57 AM
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You can get drained of 1 stat point OR 2 max hp. If the drain does t show a stat in the little log window, it was 2 max hits.

Try to do shift+key for your fast spell to break leave then instantly click on the button for your big nuke on the dungeon window?

I actually saw 2 pariahs tonight with my party, but only 1 chest and it was a curses item. My solo osirri seems likely he just had stellar luck, getting several blessings from only like 30 (I think) pariahs in 200-250 hours of play. Just gotta keep at it. It's 95% of what I do once I am running lower levels, just cycling through the 50-60 potential rooms forever and ever. laugh.gif
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 22 2019, 11:29 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Sep 21 2019, 11:57 PM) *
You can get drained of 1 stat point OR 2 max hp. If the drain does t show a stat in the little log window, it was 2 max hits.

Try to do shift+key for your fast spell to break leave then instantly click on the button for your big nuke on the dungeon window?


That makes sense. I got drained by a Lich for 2 points of charisma and 2 HP, so I suppose that's what happened. And through 90% drain resist as well. Perhaps the extra 5% really is worth it...

That's a really good point about the dungeon window buffer buttons. I need to remember that there are numbers to use, and that the mouse is useful for more than just selecting windows. I'll see about trying that out when next I encounter a peaceful mob I want to blast away.


Anyway, new video is out! - https://youtu.be/4YRfwCphbCM

I only have 5 more levels to go in Sorcerer. I'm feeling the power of Electric Field, and I'm really feeling the potential of grinding out the Slither room, but I'm *ALSO* feeling just how pitiful my melee ability actually is when I have nothing but a vampire fang, going up against master thieves, heroes, demons and the like. Heck, I find myself panicking if I end up in a fight with a couple mundragons without enough SP to blast them with Paralyzing Death or the like. The damage I take REALLY adds up fast, especially to breath weapons.


--------------------
Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 24 2019, 02:34 PM
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Finished leveling Sorcerer, feels really good to have minimum cost EF and PD. I also feel like these spells are a lot more powerful now than they used to be, even though I'm the same Paladin level now as I was back then. For instance, I used to not be able to reliably get any kills on Lamurians with electric field, but now I can reliably down even Guards with a single cast. I looked at the game and it always displays my sorcerer level when describing what spell level it is cast at.
What's more is I've actually been able to kill entire groups of Mundragons with a single Acidic Spray. I am under no impression that this is going to be a regular thing, as they probably just all rolled low on HP and I got a lucky damage roll, but the spell is DEFINITELY stronger than it used to be.
Is it possible that the game is ACTUALLY able to register the spell level of the specific guild when casting an offensive spell, but healing spells only go by your current guild level? I can't help but feel like at least one of these interactions is bugged... dntknw.gif

Speaking of stronger monsters, I encountered my second batch of Gargantuans while exploring unexplored rooms on 14... And they handily dispatched me in a single round because I missed my EF buffer and cast my static sash instead. Then I took 600+ damage in a single round and... well... blink.gif As such I've learned to never explore new dungeon on 14-15 without being at least close to full hp, and I've ALSO learned to always have enough SP for EF and to have my hand ready to cast it at all times.

I'm also getting REAL sick and tired of the inconsistent damage of the Vorpal Blade. I'm hitting for everything between 30 and 130 before backstab or crit are applied. It kind of ticks me off when I fail to kill a floor 5-6 mob because of a combined low damage roll and high HP roll. That said, as a solo char I feel a very strong need for the extra defense provided from the shield of defense... Is now the time that I should switch over to a mace of disruption or sword of slaying?

The top-tier weapon I could ever wield, assuming I found one, would be either a Lightning Blade or a Flaming Sword. Too bad there's not much chance of me finding either one of those without a lot of runs through floor 15. Though now that I have EF at minimum cost and dealing several hundred damage on the regular I should be able to survive down there reasonably well... unsure.gif

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Sep 24 2019, 02:42 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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