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> My own Mordor, For all those people who are waiting....
Salbei
post Apr 6 2011, 03:12 PM
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Iīve been waiting for Mordor XP forever (pretty much 5 years or so).
Recently decided to learn VB -> and about a month later i am very close to release a playable beta version of my own Mordor.

I am about to release a the beta version during the next couple days.
You can check my progress >here<

Here are a couple screenshots:
town:

combat:

mainscreen:


Nothing is final at this point and everything might change.

Just missing a ton of images + sounds - but at least i got a playable version (didnīt take 6 years to release a beta, not even half a year.
Did this all on my own without a team - so i REALLY donīt know what you guys have been doing for all that time.
Yes, there will be a couple bugs, but that is what a betatesters are there for.

I heavily customized the game to my needs (included a couple skills, added multiple towns, regenerating hp/mana etc.).
Personally i am using some Mtg pictures when i am playing the game, but i obviously canīt include those at the final version... well it is all in that topic.

Sal
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korexus
post Apr 6 2011, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (Salbei @ Apr 6 2011, 04:12 PM) *
Iīve been waiting for Mordor XP forever (pretty much 5 years or so).
Recently decided to learn VB -> and about a month later i am very close to release a playable beta version of my own Mordor.

I am about to release a the beta version during the next couple days.
You can check my progress >here<

[snip]

Just missing a ton of images + sounds - but at least i got a playable version (didnīt take 6 years to release a beta, not even half a year.
Did this all on my own without a team - so i REALLY donīt know what you guys have been doing for all that time.
Yes, there will be a couple bugs, but that is what a betatesters are there for.


(I should point out that I have not been involved in MXP. I have however been involved in similar projects both professionally and for fun and I have also attempted to write my own Mordor inspired game.)


The first thing I would say is that making a working prototype is the easiest part of development. The project is new so motivation is high and every new addition makes a noticeable and significant change. Once you have that though, changes are less interesting (though not always less difficult) and it becomes harder to keep going at the same rate, particularly on a voluntary process. I made the initial version of my Mordor tribute in less than a month and it works. It has a complete combat system, spells, leveling up, improving stats all sorts. It's definitely not a finished product though and two years ago I stopped work on it entirely, mostly because it just wasn't fun to work on any more..

Secondly, working on your own is often an easier way to have a high output. - You don't need to have discussions and come to agreements, you can just do things the way you want it. If the part of the system you are working on requires something else to be changed you can just change it, instead of making sure that won't break anybody else's code and you don't have to wait on other people to finish things assigned to them before you can continue. On the other hand, working with other people brings a lot more knowledge and insight into the process, which can result in a much more well rounded product.


I tend to get a bit defensive when I see developers being knocked like this, so sorry if this post comes across as abrupt. Has MXP taken a long time? Sure. Will it ever be produced? Maybe not. That would be a disappointment but it's not as though any of us have paid for the product so we're not in a position to make demands.

You have, however, taken an incredibly positive step by making your own version. Far too many people sit and moan but don't do anything, but you've taken the initiative to learn a new language and have a go yourself. I applaud that and will happily beta test for you if I can, but given that you got into VB only a month ago I suspect there will be more than just a few bugs for the testers to find (maybe not, perhaps you have a large amount of experience in other languages, I don't know). You may find that at least some of the time spent on MXP has been anticipating and dealing with those issues...


korexus.
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rb10c
post Apr 6 2011, 08:51 PM
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The digs were a bit unnecessary, albeit true.
I can't test this, but the screenies you put look good!


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QUOTE (rb10c @ Feb 14 2011, 03:22 PM) *
Darn, I went off-topic on an off-topic topic. Who's going to go off topic on this off topic, off topic topic?
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Salbei
post Apr 7 2011, 12:31 AM
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Iīm sorry for my rude tone. English is not my native language (makes it even harder for me to create a English game .
I donīt want to know how many times i used "Strenght" instead of "Strength" inside the program...
A little bit of poking was intended, but i did not mean to offend anyone beyond that.

Right now i am just very happy to work on something that i really like and am highly motivated.
I still got so many ideas for the game and often times have to reset my own priority list.
(I could build new Skills for days - it is so much fun, but other things are more important right now.)

The first Beta release was a huge motivation, and sure - there are a lot of things missing.
Especially at the later stage of the development things wonīt be as enjoyable as they are now. Especially adding Sounds / Pictures (finding royalty free things) seems to be a pita.

I already noticed how "huge" this project really is and that it could easily overwhelm you.
Currently i am setting myself small goals for every code session and develop things step-by-step to avoid that and also to keep the motivation up.

Btw. the first Beta release is out. I donīt even have a name for the Project yet !
If you are interested then just check the other forum or drop a pm there. I am a Moderator at a different section of that forum, so i check it frequently.

Sal
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Danjen
post Apr 7 2011, 07:05 AM
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I'm just curious as to how you set up the rooms so you can encounter monsters.

Personally, I would have set it up so that the floor is an xy array and each cell would have a "group" value where stepping into a group would treat it as a room. So in most cases each room would have its own group value (ie, separate encounters) but also allow it so that long hallways can have multiple encounters, as well.

At least that's my take on it, but I'd just like to hear how exactly you did it.
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Salbei
post Apr 7 2011, 01:50 PM
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My solution is quite simple.
The Map itself is pretty much a single Tablelayout.
The Player is a single Picturebox that "moves" around in that table (setrow/ setcolumn +1 / -1).
Whenever the player moves the program reads the "map.ini" file and checks if anything special supposed to happen at that specific field the player is about to enter.
This way the map can be changed at all times by just editing that map.ini file, without having to hardcode any locations. Right now there are no "fixed" walls etc and it is still possible to auto-generate every single map at once with a single button.

The only thing i have to code hardcode is what is supposed to happen at that "field" (monsterspawn ? regeneration field, town stairs etc), but NOT the field location.

My "fog of war" is working similar. The player has to enter the field first before it will get shown at the map (after that the field will be visible for all players, pretty much just like at the original mordor - (without the perception mumbo-jumbo).
A simple picturebox will get placed at that position. That box will move outside of the screen when the player enters that specific field and jump back to its original location when the field is "empty" again.
Thats pretty much how my map works.

I had 1000levels at one time - all auto generated. There is virtually no limit. Just had to make sure that Towns and both stairs are available at all times.
I will still have to fine-tune the maps (at a later stage, at this point iīm not even sure what i want to display in there...).
Most likely going to create a very simple map-editor that does all the data entry for me.

Would prolly be easier if i would have just shown you the code , laugh.gif.
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Salbei
post Apr 10 2011, 09:12 AM
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Been implementing a "Initiative" system (to determine the order of the attacks). Took a lot longer than i thought and was surprisingly difficult (for me at least).

Before the combat a random number between 1 and the actual Dex value will be the players / monster initiative. The turn based order of attacks will be influenced by those numbers (who attacks when?)

The re-worked combat is less static and allows me to implement spells / special attacks more easily. Before i just used a timer and a fixed attack order (was quite "boring" for the player).
Got rid of that timer and turned combat into a straight forward "round based" system (you see who attacks next etc).

Should add a little more strategic depth to the game while taking away the "hectic" of timer based attacks.

I wonder how other people handle this in their game, just out of curiosity.

Also finished the mapeditor i had in mind (should make it a ton easier to fine-tune maps with that thing).

sal

This post has been edited by Salbei: Apr 10 2011, 09:14 AM
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korexus
post Apr 10 2011, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE (Salbei @ Apr 10 2011, 10:12 AM) *
I wonder how other people handle this in their game, just out of curiosity.


My game is web based so I did away with rounds entirely.

In version one when a player performs (almost) any action, the monsters in the square get a chance to attack. If the player's action was to attack then the player's attack resolves first and if the monsters survive they can attack back. If the player did something else (equip an item, try to leave the square, etc.) the monsters' attack just happens. - It's a bit more complicated than that as in some circumstances, such as movement, the monster only have a chance of attacking, but I don't remember the details of that too well now.

That was fine, but didn't make sense in a multiplayer environment. Version 2 makes use of tickers for each object. For monsters the attacks happen automatically when the ticker runs down, for players that's when an action can happen, whether it does or not depends on the user's settings and submitted commands. I actually really like this system as it allows for some monsters who hit hard but not very frequently as well as others which are constantly hitting for small amounts (giants and ants for example can follow these patterns). What was it that you found hectic about using a timer? - Feedback to the player or something else?


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Danjen
post Apr 10 2011, 11:23 PM
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Any "games" I've made never came to fruition, but I can offer you my insights anyways.

What I would do for combat in a mordor clone is have an iniative check for every round - this way a player can't enter the room again and again to give first strikes all the time. Personally, I would do something like a d20 roll and add your DEX to it, although rolling 1 ~ DEX should be pretty much the same, too.
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Salbei
post Apr 11 2011, 12:49 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Was quite interesting to read.Personally i havenīt thought about multiplayer that much, but most likely it wonīt happen.
That was an good solution though.

QUOTE ("korexus")
What was it that you found hectic about using a timer? - Feedback to the player or something else?

A close friend of mine said that it was to "passive" (pretty much just looking at the screen till the fight is over). Well right now just melee combat is implemented and there really is not that much to do.
Changed the system anyway to a more of a "turnbased" system.

This is easier for the user, and also for myself to implement certain actions. Got all the time in the world now to make a decision. The strategic depth of the combat aspect also gained quite a lot by that change.
----
I have made a small vid of my progress so far.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nzHJAY5oz4

It is still a beta version and far from being close to a release.

If anyone is interested in beta testing, helping out, or anything else, then this my dedicated forum section (http://www.slightlymagic.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=88).
I obviously need a ton of (royalty free) sounds/artwork among other things.
A very basic mapeditor is already included at the current beta "release" and should be easy enough to understand by anybody.
Items and Monsters still need to be named/fine tuned - that could also be done by pretty much anyone.

I donīt expect any help, sooner or later i will have time for those things, but right now iīm too busy coding.
A helping hand here and there would obviously speed up things.

This post has been edited by Salbei: Apr 11 2011, 01:02 PM
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korexus
post Apr 11 2011, 01:13 PM
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I'll download this evening, if I get a chance. :-)

Having watched the video I would say that you seem to be asking the user to click a lot. - The combat sections particularly. Those notices may just be in there for debugging, but a beta version should be an accurate representation of what you intend to release. Logging to a messages area would be fine for combat feedback. On a similar note you seem to be clicking for movement. That may just be for the video, but imagine how frustrating coming back from level 15 would be if you can to click a button for each square. (I haven't played Mordor for several years now, but I'd be willing to bet that the key strokes for getting from stairs down to stairs up is still in muscle memory. It can be life saving to that quickly if you've been poisoned!)


korexus.
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Salbei
post Apr 11 2011, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (korexus @ Apr 11 2011, 01:13 PM) *
I'll download this evening, if I get a chance. :-)

Having watched the video I would say that you seem to be asking the user to click a lot. - The combat sections particularly. Those notices may just be in there for debugging, but a beta version should be an accurate representation of what you intend to release. Logging to a messages area would be fine for combat feedback. On a similar note you seem to be clicking for movement. That may just be for the video, but imagine how frustrating coming back from level 15 would be if you can to click a button for each square. (I haven't played Mordor for several years now, but I'd be willing to bet that the key strokes for getting from stairs down to stairs up is still in muscle memory. It can be life saving to that quickly if you've been poisoned!)


korexus.


It seems worse than it actually is.
During combat pretty much everything you need is the "Spacebar" and maybe "TAB" to select a different target.
Most likely going to remove a lot of those combat messages anyway, but right now they serve a purpose.
I donīt have any sounds yet i could tell the code to "wait" for. It is also a lot easier for me to just replace the passage of the messagebox with the sound that should be played at that point.
This way i donīt need to memorize to remove things all over the place and just have to look out for those messageboxes.

While moving on the map i was using hotkeys exclusively (w,a,s,d) - only thing that actually needs to be clicked is the "use" button when you want to use stairs or enter a town.
Thats not that much.

Thanks for the reply though.
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korexus
post Apr 11 2011, 09:21 PM
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Dammit, downloaded a file, spent most of the evening getting it to run and it turns out to be an old version.

Folks, please note that there is a second page on the forum link Salbei gave... wallbash.gif

Also, there's something funny with your rar files, they won't open on a (my) linux OS. I didn't bother looking into why, just booted up Windows and it seemed to work from there...


korexus.
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aardless
post Apr 15 2011, 07:39 PM
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That looks, ehrm, not good for now (forgive me! Artist here), but it is a valiant attempt and certainly interesting. Best of luck in your coding effort and in finding images and audio, I know first hand just how time consuming it is to develop graphics skills and how initial enthusiasm carries people away. How big are your pictures going to be? I vaguely recall seeing on Prospero's site (about his own Mordor remake) that he wanted to use some free art, 32*32 pixels IIRC. The author was one David Gervais and the site linked by Prospero is this one.


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Salbei
post Apr 17 2011, 09:42 AM
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Personally i am using MTG pictures right now, but i obviously canīt share those (there are a ton of "dummy" pictures included at my public releases).

The initial enthusiasm you mentioned went down a bit, but i am still working on the project daily for several hours - so things are still being developed quite fast.
Almost 2 months have passed now and i have learned a TON of things.(My coding experience was pretty much nonexistent before i started working on this).

At the moment i am still trying to implement/improve most of the very basic things (like the inventory management or the combat system).
Once the very basic things are done i could get into adding Sounds/Artwork. Otherwise i would a) get overwhelmed and cool.gif most likely have to change a ton of Sounds/Artwork whenever i change things.
I am trying to avoid having to recode things.

Thanks a lot for the link. Gonna see if i could use that somewhere (maybe at the minimap ?) Have to brainstorm a bit first.
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Crashland
post Aug 21 2011, 07:06 AM
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I might get some flak for this, but I think Salbei has a point. It has been a very long time since the MXP project started, and we still haven't gotten so much as a public beta. The fact that Duke Nukem Forever of all things was released before MXP would be funny if it were not so disappointing. I respect the dev team, but I can't help but wonder what's so hard about giving us a measly beta, especially since MXP is presumably nearing completion.

I'm not buying the whole "We're not getting paid; it'll be ready when it's ready" excuse. At some point, someone has to realize that the emperor has no clothes.


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QUOTE (DarkerMuffin @ Jun 16 2015, 05:54 AM) *
I stole Asmodeus's tax return!

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Jason
post May 31 2019, 03:28 PM
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QUOTE (Crashland @ Aug 21 2011, 02:06 AM) *
I might get some flak for this, but I think Salbei has a point. It has been a very long time since the MXP project started, and we still haven't gotten so much as a public beta. The fact that Duke Nukem Forever of all things was released before MXP would be funny if it were not so disappointing. I respect the dev team, but I can't help but wonder what's so hard about giving us a measly beta, especially since MXP is presumably nearing completion.

I'm not buying the whole "We're not getting paid; it'll be ready when it's ready" excuse. At some point, someone has to realize that the emperor has no clothes.


Ya, probably not as close to completion as they want you to believe. That was 2011, now it's 2019. MXP is clearly dead and buried. I feel bad for everyone who contributed assets toward it, as those have all disappeared as well. There's definitely a lesson to be learned here.

Anyway, my project is alive and I plan to release it, and I won't be taking forever to do so either, even if I am only one person working on this. I'm not sure what went wrong with MXP but I'd guess the motivation ran out. I think that's one of the big keys is keeping the motivation alive. Seeing people get excited about your game helps a lot with that, and that's what MXP had. Times works against that, though, and in the end time won and motivation dried up is my guess. Need to be careful about taking too long to finish a project.
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