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> Idea to make teleportation more user-friendly
grobblewobble
post May 29 2010, 09:47 PM
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happy.gif I kind of like the > quote style, it seems a bit more compact.


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Danjen
post May 29 2010, 11:42 PM
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It actually comes from imageboards .... anything following the > is highlighted in green.
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grobblewobble
post Nov 8 2013, 12:01 PM
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EDIT: sorry, I already posted this idea before, here. Could an admin please merge this post into that thread? Thanks!

I had this idea to improve teleportation.

Having to type relative coordinates is something I never liked about teleportation. I am convinced that DA made this for characters who have gotten lost, so that ít is possible to teleport even if you do not know where you are. The problem is that getting lost is very rare and far too easy to solve, even when it happens. In practice, 99.99% of the times people actually teleport, they will be following fixed routes up and down the dungeon, to make travelling faster. That is the reason that people teleport in reality, not as an emergency button when you're lost. Especially because getting rocked is far worse than dying, so the risk is never worth it in any case.

What I would propose, is to have the movement spells function as follows:

Ethereal Portal:

For this spell I would suggest the following changes:
If you cast it while standing in front of a square that you have mapped and is known to be Not Rock, it just works as before.
If you cast it without knowing whether you will end up in rock or not, the game warns you. A dialog pops up, saying "You are about to risk rocking yourself. Are you sure? Y/N". If you confirm, the spell is cast.
If you cast it while standing in front of a square that you have detected to be rock, you get no warning. Instead, you see something like this in the message box: "<character name:> I don't want to die like that!". The spell is not cast.

This way it would be safe to hotkey this spell, with a minimum of annoying confirmation boxes. I think this would be very convenient and improve the game.

Displacement and teleportation:
I do not like relative coordinates. It is really time consuming to calculate them if you want to displace or teleport yourself to a known destination. I like the mechanic behind Sanctuary much better: you define an anchor and later on, you can use this anchor as a destination. It is perfect for the purpose that players will want to use teleportation for. Because most of the time, you will want to travel toward the same destinations: down into the dungeon and back to town. An anchor lets you do exactly that.
The only problem is, that a single destination anchor is not enough. You need at least two, preferably more.

So what I propose is this.

Set sanctuary will let you define not one, but up to ten different teleportation destinations. Those will each be associated with a number on your keyboard, just like spell buffers. Whenever you cast Displacement or Teleportation, instead of having to type relative coordinates, you have to type a number instead, to choose the predefined destination you want to go to.
The game then checks if the chosen destination is within reach of your spell. If you're casting Displacement the destination has to be on the same level, for teleport it has to be no more than 3 levels up or down. If the destination is too far away the spell fails and nothing happens.

If you are lost, you can not cast displacement or teleportation, only Ethereal Portal and Sanctuary.

Sanctuary:

Having a top level spell that ages your characters is a great idea, but one year of aging is far too much. What I would propose is to change it to, say, 4 weeks of aging. The advantage of this spell would be that it saves you mana (and time), compared to casting teleport several times in a row.

Rocking:
Of course, if done as above you would no longer be really able to rock yourself any more. Many players like it that teleportation has some risk of rocking. I agree, I just don't like it if that risk comes from typos.
So how about this.
Whenever you cast a teleportation spell, there could be a very small risk that it fails. If it does, the whole party is teleported randomly on the current level (or maybe even randomly on the levels above and below, in the case of teleportation). Just like a random teleporter or trap, but with the additional risk that it can send a character into rock.
This way, there will always be a small risk of rocking yourself, but you will not rock yourself because of a typo. It would also mean that you will rarely rock the whole party at once, so if you have more than one seeker / mage in the group, you will usually be able to retrieve the victim without having to starting over with a whole new rescue party.

In addition, I would suggest that it should be impossible to end up in a rock where retrieve soul can never save you. So either it should be impossible to rock yourself below the deepest dungeon level, or Retrieve Soul should be able to get you out of it.

I would also suggest that the chance of failure gets smaller as your spell level increases. The Sanctuary spell should never fails this way at all, I'd say (to make the aging worth it).

After Being Retrieved from Rocking: Complications

Finally, if you do manage to cast Retrieve Soul, the further consequences of rocking should be little less punishing than they are right now. Guaranteed complications OK, but complications themselves are too harsh as they are, imo. They take away a huge number of permanent hitpoints, in addition to ruining your stats. That is a bit too much.

So what I would suggest instead: complications still ruin your stats (which can be repaired at the cost of tomes and potions) and in addition take away a small amount of permanent hitpoints, like draining. And it ages your character. But it should not take away a huge chunk of permanent hitpoints like now, that is just over the top.

Getting Lost:
Getting lost should be meaningful. Right now, all you have to do is press shift+down and hold it for one minute. There is even no reason to cast the special location spells to find out where you are. It does not even matter how intelligent your character is. He will always find out where he is easily.
So imo, you should never find out where you are, unless you can cast the detection spells. Worst case, your character can just explore until he finds himself back.. or dies.

Please comment & discuss! ok.gif

This post has been edited by grobblewobble: Nov 8 2013, 12:38 PM


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HarshSharma
post May 4 2018, 07:10 AM
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HarshSharma
post May 4 2018, 07:11 AM
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Roland
post May 4 2018, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Apr 5 2009, 05:30 PM) *
Another idea. What about this:

a: You teleport into a square that you already mapped out as Not Rock. You do not need to confirm.
b: You teleport into an unmapped square. The game warns you that this is dangerous and asks you to confirm the decision.
c: You attempt to teleport into a square that you mapped as Rock. Your character tells you he does not feel like suicide today.

The advantage of such a system would be that it allows a player to willingly take risks, while preventing keyboard/mouse errors, with minimal overhead. Also, it could be implemented regardless of the type of interface that is used - keyboard or mouse, relative or normal coordinates.

If in addition the chance of complications from getting Rocked is relaxed, it could mean that in the future, players may be willing to actually take such a risk. So that maybe, we'll hear about characters getting rocked not because the player fumbled on the user interface, but because they were desperate or because they hoped to discover a secret area.

I like this suggestion. I think takes a giant step in the direction of integrating Mordor's auto-mapping function with the location and movement spells inherited from Avatar.

The Mordor teleportation system was inherited in its entirety from Avatar. But Avatar did not include auto-mapping. The movement and location spells were a lot more useful - necessary, even - without auto-mapping. But Mordor's auto-mapping makes those spells a lot less useful, and the spells were never revised for compatibility with auto-mapping.
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Roland
post May 4 2018, 07:13 PM
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While I like grobblewobble's earlier (2009) suggestion, I am not so fond of his later (2013) suggestion, especially with respect to Displacement. These days I use Displacement for only one purpose: reuniting my party after my Seeker/Thief blows a teleport trap. He casts Soul Search on the Paladin and then Displaces to the Paladin's location. That should work even if he is "lost".
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korexus
post May 5 2018, 07:45 PM
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QUOTE (Roland @ May 4 2018, 07:13 PM) *
While I like grobblewobble's earlier (2009) suggestion, I am not so fond of his later (2013) suggestion, especially with respect to Displacement. These days I use Displacement for only one purpose: reuniting my party after my Seeker/Thief blows a teleport trap. He casts Soul Search on the Paladin and then Displaces to the Paladin's location. That should work even if he is "lost".


To me it feels unrealistic to be able to go to a specific place when you don't know where you are. - Sanctuary is a reasonable exception, as you've made a beacon to go back to, and soul searching before moving also seems fair.

The point about being lost being so easy to overcome isn't a flaw in Teleport, but in being lost. The find yourself check should probably only trigger when you move into a square for the first time since becoming lost, rather than every time you move.

I agree that it's silly to have Teleports go wrong because of user error, but the solution to that is simple. - The input for where you're teleporting to should be the map. Just flip to the the level you want, and click on the target square. The error reporting needed for 'out of range' would also cover 'I don't want to die' feedback (which is an excellent suggestion IMO).

One thing that's not been mentioned in the comparison is that Teleport/Displacement can't be cast in combat (because they act on the mosters instead). I think this can be a significant benefit to Sanctuary, as you don't have to run to a safe place before you cast it. This might be worth the aging (better than dying).

Might and Magic had an excellent spell called 'Lloyd's Beacon' which was basically Sanctuary and Set Sanctuary rolled up, but as you increased spell level you could have more targets. It would be nice for Sanctuary to work in a similar way, if the age cost were more reasonable. It would also be nice for Teleport to work over more floors as spell level increased.


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Roland
post May 7 2018, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE (korexus @ May 5 2018, 03:45 PM) *
One thing that's not been mentioned in the comparison is that Teleport/Displacement can't be cast in combat (because they act on the mosters instead). I think this can be a significant benefit to Sanctuary, as you don't have to run to a safe place before you cast it. This might be worth the aging (better than dying).

Slight correction: This is true of Teleport, but not of Displacement. Since Displacement cannot be used as an attack spell, it can be cast in the presence of monsters. I once blew a teleport trap and landed in the lair of Mother of Serpents. Fortunately, she was peaced. I could not find the door (it's secret), but I was able to cast Soul Search and Displacement to escape her lair.
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