IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> A couple of MXP questions/suggestions...
korexus
post Feb 4 2011, 10:12 PM
Post #21


Voyager
***

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 151
Joined: 24-October 07
From: Reading
Member No.: 4,011
referrer:Google Search



QUOTE (rb10c @ Feb 4 2011, 06:05 PM) *
The reason it may not begin could be due to the full health, on leaving the city, or the fact that you don't leave the city with poison.

It could dispel on extinguish squares, or extinguish traps.

Fair do's, you balanced the regeneration.

This is assuming that the coding of po/di is nice and crisp. It could be an epic novel of coding, for all I know. What I do know, is that David Allen liked to make his formulae complicated, to exite the game more, and to stop calculators.

As for those who may give suggestions; Nudibranch is coding MXP, userjjb made the total conversion; ModDor. Aardless seems pretty nifty too. These guys are your best bet.


As you've said, you're not a coder. There's no reason technical reason that would cause regeneration not to start or to be extinguished. - Does your poison go away just because you set off a trap? Do you natural resistances disappear simply because you have max HP? Sure it could be coded in such a way as to get these bugs, but that doesn't mean having them would be the default state.

My area is more php / perl (ie non compiled languages) but I'd expect adding the feature to the main game would be beyond the capability of a Mod. It could, of course, be added to MXP if the developers like it.

As I side note, regeneration is one of the options I've been toying with for the game I'm writing. The balance I had in mind for people stepping out of the room to regenerate is to allow monsters to move. - Run away from Asmodeus and he might chase you. Even if you kill him, you can't be sure that you can wait around until your HP max out as something else may turn up to pick you off... Again, this could not be written into the current version of Mordor, but would be possible in other Mordor-like games.


korexus.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thermopyle
post Feb 4 2011, 11:24 PM
Post #22


Vagabond
**

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 80
Joined: 2-January 11
Member No.: 6,522
referrer:google



Well, I didn't want to say it outright, but yeah. Unless the code was buggy, those things should not happen. smile.gif

Regarding regeneration, and for a different approach to the dungeon repopulation, I was thinking rather than going by real-time ticks, which is what Morder currently uses for poison/disease/drowning/repopulation, instead a more set measurement of steps could be used. For example, in a fight you'll either regenerate a tick, suffer poison, etc., with each turn of battle. After the battle, however, the game stops except for movement. Every time you move a square, that's one tick. So you'd regenerate with movement, or suffer poison or whatever.

Each room/monster area would also have a tick counter associated with it. If you defeat the monsters in the room, the tick counter is set to say, 600. Every step you take, that ticks down one. When it gets to 0, it repopulates. This could be consistent throughout the entire game, or it could be tweaked for fun. For example, rooms near stairs going down could have stud squares, and when cleared, could fill faster than normal (like you're on level 3, and level 4 creatures are coming up the steps.) This would make more sense from a design standpoint than a room that, for no reason, has monsters from a deeper level.

Part of the appeal to this process is that you'd no longer have the oddity of the dungeon behaving in real time. Want to keep fighting and looting a particular monster? Kill it off, exit the game, come back 15 minutes later, move in the same room, fight it again, repeat. That's how it is currently. With this process, though, the internal game time is separate from real time. Additionally, with a game-time process, you could equate each tick to, say, a minute of game time, which would be a consistent frame of reference both as a round of battle and the time to move from one square to the next. With this tick system, you could also use regeneration as a natural occurrence for all classes, but at different rates depending on the race. After all, wounds DO heal.

Game-time could also lead to resting in the dungeon. If you're low on HPs, you can take the risk--is it better to run back to town and hope you make it back before monsters re-appear in your path? Or is it better to stay in the dungeon and not return to town just for the HPs and then have to run all the way back down again? Of course, the smaller the room you rest in, and the less entrances, the safer it is to rest--if you barricade the door, a monster could break it down as you sleep. The bigger the room, the more doors it has, the more likely it cold be busted open and your party suffer a surprise attack. Plus, when you do wake up, you know the dungeon will be full again. Resting regeneration would be faster than waking (double the standard rate of that race at that level), but with a slow-regenerating character, if he's almost dead, you'd still have to either sleep longer to be restored or cover the difference with potions/spells.

Additionally, if you DO return to town...the time you spent healing (4x normal rate, maybe)? If that's more than 600 minutes of game time, the dungeon just refilled. No quick heal/level trip, then running back down and resuming where you were before with the monsters you killed last trip still missing. You have to start over, which can add more challenge to mapping a new level.

Some of this may be a bit much, but it sure would add a lot of extra depth to the game, I think. After all, a lot of the reason now that we return to town is to heal--being able to heal in the dungeon would be a lot more convenient. Travel time to and from a level you're trying to master can be a waste. It'd be better if it was to sell items or level, wouldn't it?

Edit: BTW, Perl is awesome. So is PHP, though I haven't done that much with it yet. smile.gif

This post has been edited by thermopyle: Feb 4 2011, 11:26 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rb10c
post Feb 4 2011, 11:52 PM
Post #23


Infiltrator
****

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 335
Joined: 8-October 07
From: London
Member No.: 3,954
referrer:i'm a DIEHARD FAN!!



I'll admit when i'm out of my depth, and this is a true example.


--------------------
http://macjams.com/artist/rb10c - my music site!
mordor, my favourite game EVER!!

QUOTE (rb10c @ Feb 14 2011, 03:22 PM) *
Darn, I went off-topic on an off-topic topic. Who's going to go off topic on this off topic, off topic topic?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
korexus
post Feb 5 2011, 09:43 AM
Post #24


Voyager
***

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 151
Joined: 24-October 07
From: Reading
Member No.: 4,011
referrer:Google Search



QUOTE (thermopyle @ Feb 4 2011, 11:24 PM) *
Regarding regeneration, and for a different approach to the dungeon repopulation, I was thinking rather than going by real-time ticks, which is what Morder currently uses for poison/disease/drowning/repopulation, instead a more set measurement of steps could be used. For example, in a fight you'll either regenerate a tick, suffer poison, etc., with each turn of battle. After the battle, however, the game stops except for movement. Every time you move a square, that's one tick. So you'd regenerate with movement, or suffer poison or whatever.


That's how V1 of my game works. - Kinda, you have a rest button which you can use to regain a percentage of your HP, every time you do there is a chance that a monster will turn up and, if it does, it always has the initiative. You've added a lot of extra detail to what I've put together though. - Do you mind if I steal any of your ideas?

QUOTE
Edit: BTW, Perl is awesome. So is PHP, though I haven't done that much with it yet. smile.gif


Oh yes. I write php systems for my job, but it's a bit of memory hog for long processes. As I want to introduce a real time aspect (instead of the turn based version of v1) I've turned to perl. I have a little bit of experience there, but I've certainly learned a lot of the last month or so!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rb10c
post Feb 5 2011, 09:47 AM
Post #25


Infiltrator
****

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 335
Joined: 8-October 07
From: London
Member No.: 3,954
referrer:i'm a DIEHARD FAN!!



Your turn based is a very good twist on mordor, though! With the ease of access of being online!
I look forward to seeing the Real-Time version! (slightly off topic)

I think the automap should be customisable. So, you can change your arrow colour, walls, traps etc.


--------------------
http://macjams.com/artist/rb10c - my music site!
mordor, my favourite game EVER!!

QUOTE (rb10c @ Feb 14 2011, 03:22 PM) *
Darn, I went off-topic on an off-topic topic. Who's going to go off topic on this off topic, off topic topic?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thermopyle
post Feb 5 2011, 03:12 PM
Post #26


Vagabond
**

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 80
Joined: 2-January 11
Member No.: 6,522
referrer:google



Korexus: Sure, go ahead. smile.gif

rb10c: Check out Etrian Odyssey for DS, if you have one. There's three games out, they're dungeon crawlers, and the bottom screen is used for you to map manually with the stylus. Similarly void of story (though they have a bit more), they also offer a number of class/party combinations that you can experiment with. smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
aardless
post Feb 13 2011, 09:47 PM
Post #27


Goblin Shaman at work (used to be: on strike...)
**********

Group: Admin
Posts: 5,406
Joined: 27-September 04
From: Somewhere on level 3, staring at the light
Member No.: 18
referrer::yahoo:



Interesting discussion, but Shift + down arrow would negate the benefit of a step based regeneration, unfortunately. sad.gif

I'm not much of a coder, rb.


--------------------
If money doesn't grow on trees, why is it that banks have branches? - sig of a guy on a chinese forum

Most off-topic topics are off-topic - fart642000
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thermopyle
post Feb 13 2011, 10:50 PM
Post #28


Vagabond
**

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 80
Joined: 2-January 11
Member No.: 6,522
referrer:google



This is true...but on the other hand, it would also cause the enemies to materialize faster around you. You can take a LOT of steps very quickly with that method, after all. So yes, you'd regenerate quickly, but you'd also surround yourself with enemies in the process as well.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Danjen
post Feb 14 2011, 03:25 AM
Post #29


Veteran
********

Group: Mordor MP Prog
Posts: 1,467
Joined: 25-May 07
From: Canada
Member No.: 3,498
referrer:Decklin's Domain



That's not true at all aardless!

You could make it so that shift+arrow key would do a tick towards the regeneration counter (so like 10 steps = 1 hp or something), but if it detects the same direction twice or more in a row (backwards) or four or more times in a row (left or right), then it wouldn't increase the counter. This would effectively mean the player couldn't simply hold the key down to restore their hp, because while they would get a fragment of it for the first step, subsequent steps would do nothing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thermopyle
post Feb 14 2011, 03:48 AM
Post #30


Vagabond
**

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 80
Joined: 2-January 11
Member No.: 6,522
referrer:google



It would be a silly approach to take, regardless, because the regeneration while walking would be substantially slower than a resting regeneration. It would make more sense to simply rest for a certain amount of time, and regenerate health more quickly over that time, than it would be to use that pacing trick. While the resting would carry the risk of being interrupted and attacked in your sleep, it would be a more efficient use of the time compared to pacing and gaining less HP while the monsters around you repopulate.

For example, say a troll's rate of regeneration (rate of regeneration would be a percentage based on the total HP, allowing it to scale with higher-level characters) is 1 hp every 2 steps. Pacing for 600 steps would restore 300hp. That's not very much, compared to having just surrounded yourself with a fresh set of enemies, is it? Resting for 300 minutes, on the other hand, could restore 300hp, which cuts the enemy regeneration in half, but again gives a chance of being attacked. Plus, a wise choice in resting location can make a difference in how likely you are to be attacked...assuming, of course, that you have the liberty of making that choice rather than being so desperate for HP that you can't make your way to a relatively safe location. wink.gif It makes the game a bit more dynamic, I think--adds an extra element of consideration for the player while also lengthening the amount of time somebody can stay in the dungeon. Granted, a lot of people are able to pin without issues while in the dungeon, but that's only if you're playing it safe, isn't it? This would encourage at bit more risk-taking and allow for delving a bit deeper in the dungeon, making the game a bit less about the trips back-and-forth to town.

Speaking of town...any chance we can get the ability to sell and trade things faster? It's a huge pain to have to drag and drop every item individually at the store. It'd be great to be able to select multiple items and choose to sell the lot. I think selling loot is probably one of the most tedious and annoying aspects of Mordor.

This post has been edited by thermopyle: Feb 14 2011, 03:54 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Danjen
post Feb 14 2011, 04:35 AM
Post #31


Veteran
********

Group: Mordor MP Prog
Posts: 1,467
Joined: 25-May 07
From: Canada
Member No.: 3,498
referrer:Decklin's Domain



If the regen is too trivial though (300 minutes is FIVE HOURS), it would make far, far more sense to just run to town and heal.

I like how M2 had the option to heal without aging, for a cost.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thermopyle
post Feb 14 2011, 03:06 PM
Post #32


Vagabond
**

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 80
Joined: 2-January 11
Member No.: 6,522
referrer:google



That's game minutes, not real-world minutes. smile.gif Resting would be instant for the player, and I mentioned earlier that one step = one minute game time as well.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rb10c
post Feb 14 2011, 03:06 PM
Post #33


Infiltrator
****

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 335
Joined: 8-October 07
From: London
Member No.: 3,954
referrer:i'm a DIEHARD FAN!!



I believe that your rate of regeneration should be based on your maximum health. So, a full health regen would take an hour, and would be a silly way to regenerate health fully. However, it will give regen classes a bit of an advantage, lower in the dungeon without SP. The important factor, is that it is risky to do so. Like korexus said and implemented in the game, if you're waiting around in the dungeon, you will be caught off guard by traversing monsters, so you rest/regen at your own risk.

Heal by step? That's as terrible an idea as getting experience from heal spells. It would be far too easy to exploit.

The M2 heal system? Agree completely. It makes sense, if you happen to have a healer standing by. However, poison should not be healed, and SP should not be restored. No rest - no heal - no SP regen. Pay to see doctor with gold or the option to age? Is that a good idea? Proportionate to (24)X(health healed/3)X(1000)X((40-(charisma))/100).

24 - SP cost of a level 3 healer casting minor heal.
/3 - health healed by said healer
1000 - fee
(40-charisma)/100 - charisma "haggle" bonus

So, a character wanting to be healed 20 health with 20 charisma will pay 32,000 gold. Hefty, but better than aging.

Also, it's nice and complicated, like most of DA's work!


--------------------
http://macjams.com/artist/rb10c - my music site!
mordor, my favourite game EVER!!

QUOTE (rb10c @ Feb 14 2011, 03:22 PM) *
Darn, I went off-topic on an off-topic topic. Who's going to go off topic on this off topic, off topic topic?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thermopyle
post Feb 14 2011, 03:44 PM
Post #34


Vagabond
**

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 80
Joined: 2-January 11
Member No.: 6,522
referrer:google



I just recently addressed how that would work--it'd be percentage-based off maximum health, as you just said. wink.gif Honestly it would not a be a spectacular rate of regeneration--trolls would get the most out of it, as stated before--but it would be quite useful for lengthening trips in the dungeon.

How could you possibly exploit heal-by-step as I described it above? You'd be screwing yourself over to try to regen that way. Plus, with the game-time description I gave, you'd also be aging the character with every step you took. Not the best approach to take, I think. Resting would be a much better option.

Also, for the aging consideration...it would be aging that makes sense. Meaning, time spent in the dungeon makes the character grow older. Every 3600 steps (or equivalent resting either in the dungeon or in town) and/or turns of combat (which would also take a minute each) would age the character a day. There'd be no more exploit of healing the character at the entrance to the city to avoid aging.

As for the healing via gold...sure, that's a good option. Another available option to take would be that the game could actually examine your party/character and make assumptions about healing spells being used to speed up the process. For example, if you're in town and select "Rest until healed." you'll heal at 4x your regeneration rate if there is nobody in the party with heal spells. If there IS somebody in the party with heal spells, then those spells would automatically be used to heal up the party as efficiently as possible. Along with this, however, there'd have to be the addition of an SP regeneration rate as well, as then the heal up rate would be slowed by how many healers you have and how effective they are at healing. Besides which, instant SP refills never made sense anyway.

This post has been edited by thermopyle: Feb 14 2011, 03:48 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rb10c
post Feb 14 2011, 04:07 PM
Post #35


Infiltrator
****

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 335
Joined: 8-October 07
From: London
Member No.: 3,954
referrer:i'm a DIEHARD FAN!!



I have another suggestion~

When I open a teleporter chest, I want to be the chap who opened the chest, not the remains of my party. This is because When I select the character, I want to be the character, not the party as a whole. The party is an et al, or "those guys over there".


--------------------
http://macjams.com/artist/rb10c - my music site!
mordor, my favourite game EVER!!

QUOTE (rb10c @ Feb 14 2011, 03:22 PM) *
Darn, I went off-topic on an off-topic topic. Who's going to go off topic on this off topic, off topic topic?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thermopyle
post Feb 14 2011, 08:17 PM
Post #36


Vagabond
**

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 80
Joined: 2-January 11
Member No.: 6,522
referrer:google



Yes, it would make sense for the selected character (the one who opens the chest) to remain the focal point after the teleportation. I'm not sure why the game stays with the rest of the party instead.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
npsuber
post Feb 15 2011, 05:55 AM
Post #37


Fighter
***

Group: Members
Posts: 208
Joined: 17-February 07
Member No.: 3,099
referrer:from slimey



QUOTE (thermopyle @ Feb 14 2011, 12:17 PM) *
Yes, it would make sense for the selected character (the one who opens the chest) to remain the focal point after the teleportation. I'm not sure why the game stays with the rest of the party instead.


It might make more sense from a certain perspective, but it would also make the game harder, especially for those using larger parties. If you have a party of 4 and your thief disappears, it's not all that dangerous if the focus stays on your remaining party of three, in a room you have already cleared of monsters. You can use soul search and displacement to rejoin your thief and your party is ready to rock. However, if the focus stays with the thief, he is all alone and could be anywhere. Before you even have your bearings, you could be dead if you ended up in the middle of the worst monsters the level has to offer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Danjen
post Feb 15 2011, 06:43 PM
Post #38


Veteran
********

Group: Mordor MP Prog
Posts: 1,467
Joined: 25-May 07
From: Canada
Member No.: 3,498
referrer:Decklin's Domain



QUOTE (npsuber @ Feb 15 2011, 12:55 AM) *
It might make more sense from a certain perspective, but it would also make the game harder, especially for those using larger parties. If you have a party of 4 and your thief disappears, it's not all that dangerous if the focus stays on your remaining party of three, in a room you have already cleared of monsters. You can use soul search and displacement to rejoin your thief and your party is ready to rock. However, if the focus stays with the thief, he is all alone and could be anywhere. Before you even have your bearings, you could be dead if you ended up in the middle of the worst monsters the level has to offer.
Keeping in mind that if you solo and hit a teleporter, you are usually in the middle of a fresh group of monsters. wink.gif

QUOTE
Plus, with the game-time description I gave, you'd also be aging the character with every step you took.

Eep! Don't do that!

What I like to do is imagine three different times in Mordor - the first is the local system time, the one that affects the respawn rate of monsters, which triggers absolutely and every so often. The second would be the game time which is more evident in M2 - mostly for last seen/found times, journal entries, that kind of thing (M2 also has the day/night thing in town). Finally, the third type would be character time, or their age.

I think the last one requires it's own paragraph, just because of how different it is, namely because characters age independently of system or town time.

Normally, the character ages instantly upon return to town, and the reason for this is because the healing magics accelerate the body's age to mend wounds ("You rested for 3 weeks, 5 days.") Now, we can assume this because it says so in one of the games' helplessons, and also because it does not coincide with "game time" - it doesn't suddenly make every entry in the library hundreds of days older because you die, since those are based on the system clock. This is also the case for being revived at the morgue. Anyways, the point I'm making here is that healing can be separate from time, but still age the character.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rb10c
post Feb 16 2011, 05:02 PM
Post #39


Infiltrator
****

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 335
Joined: 8-October 07
From: London
Member No.: 3,954
referrer:i'm a DIEHARD FAN!!



Did you just successfully justify the fantastical time oddities? Bravo Danjen! Similarly to wither traps, they don't just leave the character there for 4 weeks. Magical aging is very clear.

Danjen, what do you think of my pay-to-heal concept? Yae or nae?


--------------------
http://macjams.com/artist/rb10c - my music site!
mordor, my favourite game EVER!!

QUOTE (rb10c @ Feb 14 2011, 03:22 PM) *
Darn, I went off-topic on an off-topic topic. Who's going to go off topic on this off topic, off topic topic?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
thermopyle
post Feb 16 2011, 07:25 PM
Post #40


Vagabond
**

Group: Members Plus
Posts: 80
Joined: 2-January 11
Member No.: 6,522
referrer:google



He justified healed aging, yes, but his rationale for game time was a failure. smile.gif He made this post prior to asking elsewhere how game time worked with respect to monster repopulation, though.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 20th September 2020 - 06:47 AM
Bridged By IpbWiki: Integration Of Invision Power Board and MediaWiki © GlobalSoft
Copyrights and Credits