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> Idea to make teleportation more user-friendly
grobblewobble
post Apr 1 2009, 01:14 PM
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Teleportation is a very nice feature in Mordor, but the interface is not very user-friendly.

The only exception is the Sanctuary spell. This one can not go wrong. You will not have to type coordinates and you will never end up in rock.

So why not extend the 'sanctuary' approach to other teleportation spells? I think it would be great if there was a similar 'anchor' spell for Teleport. In fact, it would be even better if you could set multiple anchors, so that you can choose your desired destination from a list when you cast Teleport.

For the sake of argument, some people have created special dead bodies in M1.1 to a similar effect. See here. Such cruelty would no longer be needed.

In any case, what do you think? I hope I am not asking too much. "Don't you love fans, they ain't never satisfied." blush2.gif

This post has been edited by grobblewobble: Apr 1 2009, 01:16 PM


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Narcissus04
post Apr 1 2009, 02:53 PM
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Teleporting into rock is the best thing you can ever do in that game! It's the brilliance about teleporting, it's dangerous as anything, want to be lazy? Fine, you may die.

Also it's helpful for discovering hidden rooms you may not already know exist.
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grobblewobble
post Apr 1 2009, 03:14 PM
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The problem that I have with teleporting into rock is that it 99% of the time happens just because you made a typo.

As a result, many people refrain from using teleport spells - or mostly refrain from them. (Or use editors/backups to unrock themselves.)

Thus a very nice part of the game - teleporting - is lost to many players.

I have no problems with getting rocked as long as it is the consequence of a consciously taken risk. So, if a character gets lost and is desperate enough to try a teleport into unknown territory and then dies, excellent. If a player willingly takes a risk in the hope to discover hidden secrets, even better. However, even in such cases the 100% chance of complications seems a bit harsh to me.

There is also the point that the current (M1) teleport system is very difficult to use if you want to do anything else than go straight up or down. For example, if I am somewhere on level 4 and I want to teleport directly to town, this is going to be a lot of work calculating relative coordinates. Unless I use the silly trick of dumping a body there just for Soul Search.

However, it's very difficult to think of a way to make the system more user-friendly, while still allowing for a possibility to get rocked.

This post has been edited by grobblewobble: Apr 1 2009, 03:16 PM


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Xaphania
post Apr 3 2009, 04:44 PM
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The only way i could think of would be to have a small % chance that the spell will go awry (possible diminishing with higher spell levels.

I think you should be able to put in a set of co-ordinates from the map to teleport to. Then if it's outside the given range a message appears in the box "this is beyond your capability" this would definately make things more user friendly


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grobblewobble
post Apr 4 2009, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE
The only way i could think of would be to have a small % chance that the spell will go awry (possible diminishing with higher spell levels.

A similar suggestion was made by Slimey on his old forum, years ago. More precisely, he suggested a small chance of arriving not exactly at your destination, but close to it.

I am not sure what to think of this idea. If there is a chance to end up in rock, and being rocked still means 100% of complications, than I fear that it will make even more people refrain from using teleportation spells. So it could turn out counterproductive.

However, if at the same time the penalty for getting rocked would be relaxed, and it would reasonably be possible to avoid it if you are careful in choosing destinations, it may work out nicely?

QUOTE
I think you should be able to put in a set of co-ordinates from the map to teleport to. Then if it's outside the given range a message appears in the box "this is beyond your capability"

The point of relative coordinates is that if you get lost, you do not know your destination (so that you have a reason to get desperate, try a teleport at random and end up in rock.)

This suggestion would eliminate that possibility, just as my suggestion for anchor spells akin to Set Sanctuary would. So I think my suggestion would have a very similar effect, except that it would still be a little easier to use.


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Narcissus04
post Apr 4 2009, 02:03 PM
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I was unaware rock meant 100% chance of complications, thought I was just unlucky.
Maybe it just shouldn't be THAT risky
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Xaphania
post Apr 4 2009, 04:42 PM
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QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Apr 4 2009, 02:19 PM) *
A similar suggestion was made by Slimey on his old forum, years ago. More precisely, he suggested a small chance of arriving not exactly at your destination, but close to it.


That's more or less what I meant, It would definately make things more interesting. Especially if it was to cover three dimensions. I.E. instead of landing at your destination - you end up on the floor above or below.

QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Apr 4 2009, 02:19 PM) *
The point of relative coordinates is that if you get lost, you do not know your destination (so that you have a reason to get desperate, try a teleport at random and end up in rock.)


I see what you mean, possibly two different types of spells, one for relative and another for mapped - and you can't use mapped teleportation unless you know where you are. That would still leave the spell as a last resort to lost travellers.

As for the 100% chance of complications - i always thought that was a bit harsh anyways. Especially - as you said 'grobblewobble' - since 99% of the time it's a typo. A 'slightly raised' chance would do it - even 50/50 wouldn't be so bad.

This post has been edited by Xaphania: Apr 4 2009, 04:46 PM


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Nudibranch
post Apr 5 2009, 12:14 AM
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Seems to me the best way to go, interface-wise, would be point-and-click teleportation. You could still rock yourself if you clicked on the wrong spot (or on an undetected Rock square).


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Danjen
post Apr 5 2009, 04:12 AM
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I really like the idea of relative coordinates... Leaving up to the player and their math to correctly teleport. Messing with the space-time continuum and bending it to your will should be risky, after all. tongue.gif
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grobblewobble
post Apr 5 2009, 09:30 PM
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Another idea. What about this:

a: You teleport into a square that you already mapped out as Not Rock. You do not need to confirm.
b: You teleport into an unmapped square. The game warns you that this is dangerous and asks you to confirm the decision.
c: You attempt to teleport into a square that you mapped as Rock. Your character tells you he does not feel like suicide today.

The advantage of such a system would be that it allows a player to willingly take risks, while preventing keyboard/mouse errors, with minimal overhead. Also, it could be implemented regardless of the type of interface that is used - keyboard or mouse, relative or normal coordinates.

If in addition the chance of complications from getting Rocked is relaxed, it could mean that in the future, players may be willing to actually take such a risk. So that maybe, we'll hear about characters getting rocked not because the player fumbled on the user interface, but because they were desperate or because they hoped to discover a secret area.

This post has been edited by grobblewobble: Apr 5 2009, 09:30 PM


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Xaphania
post Apr 5 2009, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Apr 5 2009, 10:30 PM) *
c: You attempt to teleport into a square that you mapped as Rock. Your character tells you he does not feel like suicide today.


Now, why didn't i think of that? Simple ... effective.

wallbash.gif wallbash.gif wallbash.gif wallbash.gif wallbash.gif wallbash.gif

Calculated risk is one thing, being indiscriminately penalised for a silly error is quite anothe.


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Technomancer
post Apr 6 2009, 02:30 AM
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I've always hated the idea of being rocked, especially considering how much time can go into a party!! I don't teleport very much as a result. I rocked myself by accident a long time ago, because I put in coordinates as if I was facing north, not realizing that facing was taken into account in the coords. That was my first ever tele!! ok.gif I always thought the penalties for teleporting into rock were too severe. I always thought a better system would be to either dump the party out in the nearest open space and cause considerable HP damage, possibly/probably killing some or all, or spit the party back to the original location, with said damage. Could also make the damage decrease depending on the caster level and increase depending on dungeon level.

Refusing to teleport into a mapped rock is also a swell idea! Obviously, you would want it to where all bets are off when teleporting while lost... sneaky.gif
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grobblewobble
post Apr 7 2009, 09:35 PM
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TY, Xaphania. Now please stop that before you hurt yourself. wacko.gif

To make this idea really work, it may be a good idea to make it harder to retrace your steps when lost.
Right now all that is needed to find out where you are is to keep pushing shift-down for two minutes. So there is not enough incentive to try a random teleport.


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RS-Blade
post Apr 11 2009, 04:30 PM
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Well i always just found a combination of ports that always used the same number :S Maybe limit Teleport's effectiveness to how much of the level you have explored? Having a low percent of the map explored would increase chance to be rocked and maybe go as far as to add surrounding levels exploration % to the equation or even levels above the intended destination?
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Sduibek2
post May 23 2010, 03:48 PM
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Just read what exactly Complications entails here. Wow. Seriously? From a typo??!?!?! No wonder people hate getting Rocked.

:-\


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Danjen
post May 23 2010, 05:15 PM
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Complications don't seem too serious to a mid-aged, high level character (aside from HP loss). At that point, the age and stats shouldn't be too, too hard to overcome.

Also, my previous point stands:
QUOTE (Danjen)
Messing with the space-time continuum and bending it to your will should be risky, after all.
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Sduibek2
post May 23 2010, 05:23 PM
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"Also, my previous point stands:"

True, but not if the party posseses the Flux Capacitor item...


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grobblewobble
post May 23 2010, 06:20 PM
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> Complications don't seem too serious to a mid-aged, high level character (aside from HP loss).

The HP loss is what makes it so bad, especially for a high level character. You can easily lose 100 permanent HP or more. Nothing else in the game comes close to being that punishing, except 1 thing. Rocking yourself on level 16. Retrieve soul only works on the same dungeon level, which is impossible in that case.

I can understand your point that there should be some kind of risk involved in teleportation, but as it stands you should never use teleportation at all, if you're not willing to cheat that is.

This post has been edited by grobblewobble: May 23 2010, 06:21 PM


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Danjen
post May 23 2010, 08:51 PM
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Hm, I guess comp sucks no matter what, cuz early on, you're gonna be hit hard by the stat loss, especially since you'll likely get complications the NEXT time you die as well.
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aardless
post May 29 2010, 07:34 AM
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QUOTE (grobblewobble @ May 23 2010, 08:20 PM) *
> [snip]
[OT]Too many emails lately? sneaky.gif


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