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> Resolution of window/screen
Jason
post May 1 2019, 07:00 PM
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I'm curious as to what size/resolution people would want in a modern Mordor game. Also for anyone with relatively small screens or low resolutions (not judging), what is your max resolution? Would people prefer windowed or full screen?

Reason I ask is in designing my mordor remake, it's looking like I really need to know what minimum size the main window should be so I can lay things out right. I think this would work best. So wanted to get input from everyone before setting things in stone. I'm liking the look of the June 2008 update screenshot for Mordor XP so I'm thinking of using that as a basis. Link here:

http://dejenol.com/index.php?title=Mordor_...une_2008_Update
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Nudibranch
post May 2 2019, 04:15 AM
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1024x768 is reasonable as a minimum size. Though I wonder what the best approach is to handling different aspect ratios (4:3 and 16:9, at a minimum). If you wanted to be lazy, you could design it for 1280x720 and it could run on 1280x1024 letterboxed and 1080 or 4k would just take 1.5x or 3x scaling.

Windowed plz.


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Jason
post May 2 2019, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE (Nudibranch @ May 1 2019, 11:15 PM) *
1024x768 is reasonable as a minimum size. Though I wonder what the best approach is to handling different aspect ratios (4:3 and 16:9, at a minimum). If you wanted to be lazy, you could design it for 1280x720 and it could run on 1280x1024 letterboxed and 1080 or 4k would just take 1.5x or 3x scaling.

Windowed plz.


Just so happens I was thinking 1024x768 for a minimum as well. I think unless someone comes along and says they need lower resolution I'll stick with that. Or maybe slightly smaller to account for window borders. I was planning on windowed as the default but allowing full screen if like 1024x768 is your maximum screen resolution or something, maybe. Probably not actually but we'll see. I'll worry about that later as it's not really that important yet.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Mordion
post May 2 2019, 07:25 PM
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Make it work like M1. (except allow manual resize on all windows instead of the large fonts adjustment button)
User picks font size and when you resize the window it just shows you more.
Some windows will scale the font to keep the layout the same. (except Items window shouldn't scale it should show more)
Then it doesn't matter what resolution you use.

My ideal game would have a main window with a button bar and status bar. And all the interior windows would dock like in Visual Studio. (Resizing everything to be pixel perfect in M1 is challenging)
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BLauritson
post May 2 2019, 07:47 PM
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I agree that windowed would be preferable.

In terms of a minimum resolution I agree with Nudibranch's comment that 1024x768 would be a reasonable minimum, and I agree sub-windows should be dockable and resizeable.


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Mordion
post May 3 2019, 12:38 AM
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QUOTE (BLauritson @ May 2 2019, 03:47 PM) *
I agree that windowed would be preferable.

In terms of a minimum resolution I agree with Nudibranch's comment that 1024x768 would be a reasonable minimum, and I agree sub-windows should be dockable and resizeable.


I remember playing Mordor at 640x480... it was a little cramped but it worked.
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Jason
post May 3 2019, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE (Mordion @ May 2 2019, 07:38 PM) *
I remember playing Mordor at 640x480... it was a little cramped but it worked.


I'm playing it in DosBox with Windows 3.1 so ya, I get that genuine cramped feel as a bonus. smile.gif It does help me to consider minimal sizes though.
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Jason
post May 3 2019, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE (Mordion @ May 2 2019, 02:25 PM) *
Make it work like M1. (except allow manual resize on all windows instead of the large fonts adjustment button)
User picks font size and when you resize the window it just shows you more.
Some windows will scale the font to keep the layout the same. (except Items window shouldn't scale it should show more)
Then it doesn't matter what resolution you use.

My ideal game would have a main window with a button bar and status bar. And all the interior windows would dock like in Visual Studio. (Resizing everything to be pixel perfect in M1 is challenging)


I guess it would be helpful to understand exactly how you set things up (goes for everyone else as well). Do you like to scale windows up to make text larger and such? Is that an important feature? Or not really? If interior windows could dock, would you have everything docked all the time, or would you want some windows not docked, or not docked all the time? For me, I'd want them always docked and would never dock them probably. I wouldn't rescale windows to make text larger either, if I have the option of specifying a universal font size. I'd just set a font size that things aren't too small.

You are correct about it not mattering what resolution you use. Except in that some may be running on older computers with older monitors and have a relatively small maximum possible resolution by modern standards. That's what I'm thinking anyway, which is why I started this post to see if that was true for anyone. By using java, it isn't limited to any platform so some platforms could be more limited as well. Like someone running linux on an old computer, which is pretty common really. Maybe I am worrying too much about it, but I know from experience it's best to try and make a solid design beforehand to work from when starting a new project.
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Nudibranch
post May 3 2019, 05:24 PM
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Well, if you're anticipating it running on tablets, you might even want to try to accommodate 1024x600.


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Jason
post May 4 2019, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE (Nudibranch @ May 3 2019, 12:24 PM) *
Well, if you're anticipating it running on tablets, you might even want to try to accommodate 1024x600.


I suppose that is a possibility, though not planning around that right now. I'm working on trying to get the GUI layed out right now so once I get it down we'll see what kind of true minimum resolution it can handle. My first time messing with swing so it's going kind of slow as I figure out how it all works and how to bend it to my will.
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Jason
post May 25 2019, 05:07 AM
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I thought I'd throw up a screenshot to illustrate the screen layout I have planned, more or less, and show where I'm at with things. Still early and I am still playing around with how things will work. I'm liking it and having fun so far.

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BLauritson
post May 28 2019, 05:18 PM
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I like it! True to the original but making good use of the extra space, and I really like the 3D dungeon view.

Look forward to seeing how this comes along smile.gif


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Jason
post May 28 2019, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE (BLauritson @ May 28 2019, 12:18 PM) *
I like it! True to the original but making good use of the extra space, and I really like the 3D dungeon view.

Look forward to seeing how this comes along smile.gif


Thanks. It's all using java swing so it adjusts as you resize the window automatically. I am thinking about putting in splitters though so you can manually control the space tradeoffs. I'm rather happy with how the dungeon view turned out as well. At first I just loaded the art from mordor's MG11.dll and rendered with that as a placeholder, figuring I'd just render pre-made images like mordor does. But then I started looking into some tutorials on how to do Doom/Wolfenstein 3D style ray casting and ended up writing my own simplified ray casting engine. So I got nice 3d rendering without utilizing a 3d card, and it's pretty fast. I still need to optimize it but it takes about 11 ms to render that sized view right now on my system. That's on hold for now, though, as I'm focusing on the editor side of things more now. I really need more actual data in the game.

I'll keep everyone updated from time to time on how it's progressing.
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Nudibranch
post May 29 2019, 05:45 AM
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One change I'd make to Mordor is to superimpose the monster icons (and possibly combat text) over the 3D window. Too many elements (especially the overhead map) take your focus away from the 3D display, making it useless. Combining it with combat-related info would make sense both thematically and in terms of layout, IMO.


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Jason
post May 29 2019, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (Nudibranch @ May 29 2019, 12:45 AM) *
One change I'd make to Mordor is to superimpose the monster icons (and possibly combat text) over the 3D window. Too many elements (especially the overhead map) take your focus away from the 3D display, making it useless. Combining it with combat-related info would make sense both thematically and in terms of layout, IMO.


I actually think that is a very good idea. I'm still not quite sure about the whole layout. It's not too bad for a minimal window size:



But when I maximize my screen it's not so great anymore:



I'm starting to think maybe having more than one layout option would be a good idea, such as having the dungeon view to the left of the map view, side by side. Maybe having the party table on the left side with the two tabbed areas. I would kind of like to have a combat log as well, maybe having the main log window able to be switched to the combat log, so you can view one or the other at a time. I'll have to play around some more and try things and see. Ideas are always welcome if anyone has any. smile.gif
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Nudibranch
post May 29 2019, 11:45 PM
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You can't get the text elements to scale up? The first screenshot you posted had the proportions about right. I'd keep subwindow and text sizes consistent across resolutions - but customizable with splitters or whatever.


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Jason
post May 30 2019, 01:35 AM
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QUOTE (Nudibranch @ May 29 2019, 06:45 PM) *
You can't get the text elements to scale up? The first screenshot you posted had the proportions about right. I'd keep subwindow and text sizes consistent across resolutions - but customizable with splitters or whatever.


I can change the font size. Be default the text is the size you are seeing when it comes to java swing. I'll probably leave it up to the user to decide what size they want exactly. Some people like small text, others are too old to read text that's too small, etc.

I agree the first screenshot looks good. The other two are showing two extremes and what happens at those extremes. A bigger window will always be better though. I made the dungeon view rather overly large and I'd probably not want to play it that big but I'm thinking about those out there that might. The party table and the message log are just way too long in this situation, though. Hmm, just got an idea...

Right now there's two ways to adjust: First is to just drag and resize the window. The layout of the window will adjust with that. The first tabbed area (with the stats tab) is a fixed size and doesn't change size. The dungeon view is also a fixed size, but that leads to the second way, which are the plus and minus buttons on the dungeon view. This increases or decreases the dungeon view size by 100 pixel steps. It always remains square. I'm going to try moving some things around a little, add some splitters, and see how that works.
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Nudibranch
post May 30 2019, 04:41 PM
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There's not much need to have small vs. large text in Mordor, though. The dungeon view is a bunch of panels where if you have smaller text, the text is just... smaller. Smaller text doesn't increase the amount of text on screen because it's mostly just stats.

Personally, I'd always make the overhead map full size (15x15) and give it a good amount of space. Then the combat+3D display.


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Jason
post May 30 2019, 10:07 PM
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QUOTE (Nudibranch @ May 30 2019, 11:41 AM) *
There's not much need to have small vs. large text in Mordor, though. The dungeon view is a bunch of panels where if you have smaller text, the text is just... smaller. Smaller text doesn't increase the amount of text on screen because it's mostly just stats.

Personally, I'd always make the overhead map full size (15x15) and give it a good amount of space. Then the combat+3D display.


Ya, the whole large font in Mordor was a bit subtle. Here's a new screenshot with my new ideas in. Has 3 different splitters.

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Nudibranch
post May 31 2019, 04:01 AM
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Shaping up. Where does the inventory panel go?


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