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> Solo good human
MythrilZenith
post Jul 8 2019, 03:47 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Jul 8 2019, 06:05 AM) *
Lame. I got an avenger (i think? It was "Sword" from the butcher) just now. Ran back to town cause he and the champions work me over even when I engage with companions. Go to ID the sword, and it's not in slot 18 like it said it was. Checked my combat log and no steal or destroyed messages are there. Wth?


No slime traps? Slime monsters? Thieves? Did you check your upper inv slots? Sometimes an item is either destroyed or taken from you for a quest without telling you. Usually it's mentioned if it's destroyed but if an equipped item is taken for a quest you get NO warning, and that may have left an open slot for you.

Aside from that... Yeah, not much else I can tell ya. Occasionally mordor *forgets* to talk about some things.


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I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Jul 8 2019, 05:13 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Jul 8 2019, 11:47 AM) *
No slime traps? Slime monsters? Thieves? Did you check your upper inv slots? Sometimes an item is either destroyed or taken from you for a quest without telling you. Usually it's mentioned if it's destroyed but if an equipped item is taken for a quest you get NO warning, and that may have left an open slot for you.

Aside from that... Yeah, not much else I can tell ya. Occasionally mordor *forgets* to talk about some things.


Nah, none of the above. I got the message that the sword was looted into slot 18, never saw any message about it being destroyed or stolen, can't have been quested for an avenger at guild level below 175 I think... and then it just wasn't there when I looked for it when I got to town.

I'm content though. I got a cross of commanding AND a mystic shield of a demonist just now, and the cross was already good aligned.

Playing as mage is great. 6 free entraps per trip gives me lots of meatshields to help reduce chances of stoning/draining/destruction and reduce my need to heal myself. I've made sure to face butcher and demonist with 4 companions the last few times and end up coming out without getting hit (especially now thsy precog death 1 shots demonist sometimes, laugh.gif).

Minor heal hit 4 sp. I kinda want to keep playing as mage because the free entraps are so fun... but at this point I think more warrior and scavenger levels are going to make a lot bigger impact. Plus the 90+ war/scav levels still come faster than the 70ish mage/sorc ones! ok.gif
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MythrilZenith
post Jul 8 2019, 08:26 PM
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Yeah, Mage has the best crest by far in terms of spellcasting utility - 6 charges of Soul Entrapment at user's spell level is insane. It's high "damage," high bind, and would normally cost you a ton of SP, more than just about any other crest' worth (though healer's Restoration charges are also good). It's a great source of companions for shields or extra damage, a great source of money (especially with how much the confinement gives for a monster they don't have any of yet), and a great way to fill out the confinement for future quests. Gotta catch 'em all, right? laugh.gif

As far as passive effects go, I still prefer the resistances of the Sorcerer crest, but the fact that mage gives mind, magic, invis and see invis combined is a lot of tedium saved, especially when you stumble over blackout traps dry.gif


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I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

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fischsemmel
post Jul 9 2019, 04:12 PM
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Yikes. After all this time never getting drained, I managed to get drained for 2 int and 1 wis in a single round. I think it was only 1 monster, too, because it happened after I had fired off an acid spray that almost certainly killed everything except 1-2 shuman munsae.

Anyway, I decided to keep leveling warrior up to boost my a/d and melee potential more since so much of my leveling runs are just me chopping things down and saving sp for healing or nasty groups that need to die asap. I can nearly use the avenger now, but kinda want to keep at warrior for like another 50 levels more to get my defense up close to 300 with every guild to have some more staying power on dungeon levels 6 and 7 so I can pin every time I go down. Traps are a real pain on 7 though too. Even with shift+back arrow held down to spam back into an area to get the best idea of what a trap actually is, it's pretty hard to know for sure because my ID is so crappy it hardly shows the actual trap often enough to tell what it is... and disarms fail more often than not. I tend to just leave boxes and chests entirely alone unless they're from the demonist or butcher. I haven't tried hooded thief yet because I'm pretty confident he'll just destroy/steal and then disappear before I can kill him anyway. Minotaur is way too tough still. I avoid medusa without companions. Still visiting twisted elf regularly looking for more awesome rings.

So yeah. Need more levels in more guilds than I have time for, being really careful in what I fight and do in general, etc. Standard soloer stuff! I seem to recall from my osirri that level 7 was a place I kinda hit a plateau for a long time. 8-9 never interested me too much except for getting a vampire fang, and 10 is a lot deeper than 7 so I will be messing around on 5-7 for many, many levels before I quickly map out 8-9 and start visiting giant king on 10, and graduate to the lake on 11 for more levels instead of the lake on 7 smile.gif
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MythrilZenith
post Jul 9 2019, 05:38 PM
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Oof. Yeah shuman munsae will drain you dry if you don't have drain resist. They're the reason I switched over to a grey cloak from a cloak of invisibility - hitting a blackout with no sp left and trying to get out of the dungeon is a lot more dangerous when a single bad round can cost you upwards of 3 stat points. Initially I was hesitant because I thought the extra 5% from casting the spell would matter more, but honestly the security from just not having to recast it every time i blackout is worth the slight extra risk.

Level 8-9 doesn't have too much more of value than level 7 tbh. Vampire fang is the big reward, but new sashes and boots of levitation are the other big step up. Also mithril chain for warrior types can be decent. Unfortunately all those things are pretty rare, and the jump in difficulty from 7 to 8 is brutal because of ninjas alone.



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I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

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Roland
post Jul 9 2019, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Jul 9 2019, 01:38 PM) *
Oof. Yeah shuman munsae will drain you dry if you don't have drain resist. They're the reason I switched over to a grey cloak from a cloak of invisibility - hitting a blackout with no sp left and trying to get out of the dungeon is a lot more dangerous when a single bad round can cost you upwards of 3 stat points.

That's why I always carry a Scroll of Spells and a few charges of Fate. I don't use them very often, but they are useful in an emergency.
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fischsemmel
post Jul 10 2019, 03:30 PM
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Yuck. I was playing around with the disarm trap formula to ballpark how many scavenger levels I want, and while the formula was in my head, I decided to see how a 30 dex, 30 wis scav would fare at different levels against against different stuff.

As I suspected, I'll want to be 200 minimum (which is around 2/3 disarm chance against level 7 monster on dungeon level 7) before I work on other guilds. But when I looked at guild levels 300, 500, 700, and 900 vs level 15 monsters and dungeon level 15... Ugh. It's sad.

A 300 thief is about as effective as a 650 scavenger! A thief can get 95% disarm on level 15+15 though not until 700+, but a scav basically never can without dozens of blessings and glevel 999.

My osirri at 300+ thief with several blessings still felt like he took more damage from traps when clearing 15 than he did from monsters. And my human here will be a lot less effective at dealing with traps even if I manage to get scav up to 500 before doing level 15 (unless I also manage to find like a dozen blessings by then, which I probably won't unless I get warrior, mage, and sorc all up to 300 too without even setting foot on 15). And I probably will go insane not doing 15 at all until I'm that high level!

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Jul 10 2019, 03:31 PM
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fischsemmel
post Jul 10 2019, 08:24 PM
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Just got an elven ring off of the demonist! =D
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Roland
post Jul 10 2019, 09:27 PM
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Thanks for sharing your research on Scavengers' boxing ability. It's rather discouraging, but if you're committed to playing a non-neutral character/party, there's not much that can be done about it. If we wanted to do it the easy way, we would all be running Dwarves!

I've been taking my Morloch down to 9. As a level-190 Scavenger with 30+ dex, he sometimes gets robbed.
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fischsemmel
post Jul 10 2019, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (Roland @ Jul 10 2019, 05:27 PM) *
Thanks for sharing your research on Scavengers' boxing ability. It's rather discouraging, but if you're committed to playing a non-neutral character/party, there's not much that can be done about it. If we wanted to do it the easy way, we would all be running Dwarves!

I've been taking my Morloch down to 9. As a level-190 Scavenger with 30+ dex, he sometimes gets robbed.


Well, no original work really, just me plugging numbers into the formula from the spoilers on the wiki! No thief stinks, for sure, but I think mage access is a good balancing point overall.

I think 200 scav is too optimistic atm for me. Currently I'm 141 war, 133 scav, 84 mage, 71 sorc iirc. I'm gonna bring scav and war to 150 then sorc to 100, maybe mage some too? It'll take a couple days to do that anyway. Though my family is going to the inlaws this weekend... so I may have a real binge day!
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MythrilZenith
post Jul 11 2019, 02:54 PM
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So in other words, Scavenger is gonna be my primary guild moving forward. THAT'S not discouraging at all. dry.gif
I've had nothing but bad luck with boxes recently, losing a SECOND vampire fang yesterday (admittedly it was one I had picked up from the vampire and hadn't ID'ed yet, and not the one I had equipped, but still). Not only do I not learn my lessons, though, but I rarely even properly ID most traps so I can never just ignore them outright, especially when I'm on floor 9+ and could be getting something useful.

Edit: Wait, Elven Ring? Why have I never heard of these before?? I looked it up and it is just a rechargeable healing item... That would be so useful even after all the other rings stop being useful! Is this only from the Demonist or can it be dropped by the other ring-dropping monsters around the dungeon?
Methinks I need to start visiting the Demonist some more.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Jul 11 2019, 03:02 PM


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I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Jul 11 2019, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Jul 11 2019, 10:54 AM) *
So in other words, Scavenger is gonna be my primary guild moving forward. THAT'S not discouraging at all. dry.gif
I've had nothing but bad luck with boxes recently, losing a SECOND vampire fang yesterday (admittedly it was one I had picked up from the vampire and hadn't ID'ed yet, and not the one I had equipped, but still). Not only do I not learn my lessons, though, but I rarely even properly ID most traps so I can never just ignore them outright, especially when I'm on floor 9+ and could be getting something useful.

Edit: Wait, Elven Ring? Why have I never heard of these before?? I looked it up and it is just a rechargeable healing item... That would be so useful even after all the other rings stop being useful! Is this only from the Demonist or can it be dropped by the other ring-dropping monsters around the dungeon?
Methinks I need to start visiting the Demonist some more.


I believe it drops from all sorts of stuff, starting with twisted elf.

I love ring of teleport (have formerly just uses it as escape method if I run into trouble and can't safely run all the way out) and elven ring (again mostly saving it for emergencies, unless I have such boatloads of gold that I use it a bit on 15 to prolong stays so I spend more time fighting and less travelling in and out). Might get some mileage out of ring of opening later on too since coo isn't too awfully cheap even for a high-level scavenger.

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Jul 11 2019, 06:09 PM
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fischsemmel
post Jul 12 2019, 10:53 PM
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Looks like I'm playing a bit more conservatively than I did when I solod an osirri starting last November. In a bit over two weeks with the osirri, I was around 150 seeker and thief, and 90 sorcerer and healer. In a bit under two weeks with my human, I'm around 150 warrior and scavenger, and 100 sorcerer and mage. But it looks like I killed the giant king for the first time with my osirri right around these levels, but my human still hasn't even gone down the stairs to dungeon level 8 yet!

I blame it on scavenger vs. thief disarming. I probably was seeing ++ to disarm on 7 with 150 thief, but I see a mix of +/*/- with 150 scavenger depending on what monster it is, so I haven't wanted to go lower when I will just get nuked by basically every chest I open and even have a hard time IDing sometimes!

Im only a few levels from upgrading my weapon as a scavenger though, so that should help as I try to boost my scav level up near 200. I want to start exploring 8, but I'll probably do it as a mage so I can use the crest to have companions as often as possible to help protect against stoning or insta-death melee. I'm nearly 300 defense as a warrior or scavenger, and a bit lower as a caster... I can just melee down giant leeches and acid spray zbrats while barely taking damage, but ninjas still worry me, and I still clench up every time I hear mythicals get an attack off (even though they usually miss anyway)!

I'm one death better off than I was last time I solod at this point though, since my osirri got killed on level 2 by a green slime very early and stoned again around these levels, when I've still just had the one death from stupidly walking down the chute by the goblin lord when I was way too low to get back out from level 5! And it seems like I probably won't ever level seeker enough with this character to be using displacement or teleport regularly (or even at all), so that'll be at least 4-5 more deaths that I never get from rocking myself and teleporting above the city and whatever! laugh.gif. Maybe I'll be able to pull off like a 3-death win!

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Jul 12 2019, 10:56 PM
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MythrilZenith
post Jul 12 2019, 11:13 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Jul 12 2019, 04:53 PM) *
Looks like I'm playing a bit more conservatively than I did when I solod an osirri starting last November. In a bit over two weeks with the osirri, I was around 150 seeker and thief, and 90 sorcerer and healer. In a bit under two weeks with my human, I'm around 150 warrior and scavenger, and 100 sorcerer and mage. But it looks like I killed the giant king for the first time with my osirri right around these levels, but my human still hasn't even gone down the stairs to dungeon level 8 yet!

I blame it on scavenger vs. thief disarming. I probably was seeing ++ to disarm on 7 with 150 thief, but I see a mix of +/*/- with 150 scavenger depending on what monster it is, so I haven't wanted to go lower when I will just get nuked by basically every chest I open and even have a hard time IDing sometimes!


You should have significantly better combat stats on your Human because of access to the Warrior class, but the combination of lower Dexterity cap and *especially* lack of Thief access will definitely reduce your effective ability to detect and disarm traps. That said, knowing what traps each monster tends to spawn with can help you reason whether it's viable to open it or not, and eventually you'll just end up having to muscle through the failed traps or never open a box again.

You also are probably not pushing deeper because you just don't NEED to in order to level. As an Osiri you probably needed to go to floor 8+ just to pin, even on a warrior class, whereas with a human you are probably able to pin off floor 7 alone.

And it's not that Osiri resistances are *great,* but they're at least existant (and they have several 90%'s passive as well), so you are going to be spending more SP on resistance spells on this character every run, especially with the increase in failed Blackout traps you'll run into. Between that and the doubled minimum cost of CoO, you're lucky that you can survive most combats with melee, because you'll be running dry on SP really quickly.


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I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Jul 13 2019, 12:08 AM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Jul 12 2019, 07:13 PM) *
And it's not that Osiri resistances are *great,*


Oh man, you don't think so? They're my favorite set of racial resists BY FAR. I don't rely on 90% for stoning, draining, or paralysis when solo, but 90% for 3 of the others is fantastic imo, and the ones osirri get are the more expensive ones to buff to boot.

I hate the 30-60% resists some races get. Theyre so useless when spells hit so hard, especially deeper down.


But yeah, though the osirri had a lot going for him with thief&healer and crazy dex and nice resists, I'm enjoying the human too. 20% less exp required is a pretty big deal (I actually just pinned scavenger, my highest guild, on level 6 with over 100 spell points left while looking for a lassumeon... heh... I should nuke more), and warrior melee + crits + defense is sooooo much better than seeker, and mage companions are fun and useful smile.gif

I'll definitely be spending more time learning what monsters drop loot I want at lower levels (besides the obvious big ticket items) so that I can ignore boxes and chests that won't have anything except stuff to sell to the store in them.

Edit - scavenger does have a pro though; it's not all con compared to thief. Scavengers do get nicer gear to use for all the levels you need to spend on them.

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fischsemmel
post Jul 14 2019, 01:02 AM
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Finally got scavenger up to 200. Traps aren't bad on 7-8. BUt they're still pretty damn messy the little I've set foot on 9-10. I've killed a few vampires and one giant king, and ninjas and death hawks don't hurt bad at all, so I definitely have the combat ability to explore these floors... But I'm still mostly just doing 7-8 while I level up mage some.

Inspired by our good elf and evil morloch, I'm making a concerted effort to raise my casters above my warrior. I'm not sure how it will go. I really, really just love defense, and I enjoy cleaving stuff in twain too. It has always felt good having warrior (or whatever, seeker, etc) leading the way, but I figured I can give this the old college try.

I was torn on mage or sorc. Sorc is just... Man, such a good guild. Leprosy, acid spray, electric field, paralyzing death, and even arctic whatever in a pinch? It's hard to not focus on that! But I really did make this guy to be a "solo mage" and running with companions IS fun. So mage it is! If I get heal down to 10 sp though it'll be even harder to convince myself not to melee everything, laugh.gif. Ay least scav will be healing itself like crazy due to the heal but and since it's going to stay my highest guild for the thieving!

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MythrilZenith
post Jul 15 2019, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Jul 13 2019, 07:02 PM) *
Inspired by our good elf and evil morloch, I'm making a concerted effort to raise my casters above my warrior. I'm not sure how it will go. I really, really just love defense, and I enjoy cleaving stuff in twain too. It has always felt good having warrior (or whatever, seeker, etc) leading the way, but I figured I can give this the old college try.


It doesn't help that spellcasters ALSO need the most raw exp to level up. But at least they don't get quested as often, so that's a plus? (Sorc is like 10% chance of quest compared to the like 20 or 25 for Warrior). One of the most annoying thing about ninja tbh, the 35% quest chance.

Still, one of the best feelings in Mordor is blasting an entire group of spam monsters in a single cast. Even early on you can dazzle slaves or ants, and WoD vs Zbrats always feels amazing (even if it's just a Rod of Ultimate Power). Paralyzing Death vs the Dwarven Lord was one of my favorites for a while on this character, though - one of the earliest places to get several thousand exp from a single button press.

As for Mage or Sorc, both are solid. The diverse blasting potential of Sorc (plus the cheapest cast for every resistance) is really hard to pass up, but Mage does have healing, charm and Mind/Kill which covers your bases. (Plus Field of Death, while somewhat impractical, can kill more monsters in a single cast than any other spell with an insane 4/20 area compared to even WoD's 4/14). I'm leveling both, and while my main focus for dungeon delving is on Sorcerer, the power of just extra bodies if nothing else has made me VERY happy I leveled mage as much as I did. You can get away with cheaping out on Mage because of rods/spheres/etc and healing items, but natural casting is definitely a plus.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Jul 15 2019, 10:06 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Jul 16 2019, 02:03 PM
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I had a leveling spree with mage a couple days ago and got it up around 175. I switched to sorc but wasn't enjoying leveling it. Melee didn't seem to be cutting it; the cross of commanding doesn't hit hard enough to get many swings frequently. And I can't pin when using spells more. So I started on warrior again, figuring I'd get up to 218ish which seems like a soft breakpoint on how quickly a/d goes up. Ive gotten a little stumped on a few quests so scavenger has been getting a little more attention too.

I'm feeling the post-7/pre-11 slump. 7 isn't enough xp, but it's too much for me to get all the way down to 11 and back up safely after fighting there still. And traps down on 10-11 are super hard for 200ish scavenger... -- and hard to ID.

So I'm just plodding along, hoping to get scav up yo 250 and warrior 220 or so, at which point I can hopefully handle trips to 11 (without resorting to teleport items!) and get sorc caught up to mage.

Part of me wants to ignore sorc though. I think I'll check the resists of the nastier stuff on 11+ on the wiki to see if mind and kill spells will be sufficient to go mage-wild or if it's silly to push mage that high instead of catching sorc up for electric field ownage.
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fischsemmel
post Jul 16 2019, 05:15 PM
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Ehhh. Doesn't look like mage nukes alone are enough. Too many spellcasters, breath weapon monsters, and big bad guys heavily resist both mind and magic.
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MythrilZenith
post Jul 16 2019, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Jul 16 2019, 11:15 AM) *
Ehhh. Doesn't look like mage nukes alone are enough. Too many spellcasters, breath weapon monsters, and big bad guys heavily resist both mind and magic.


This is where items come in. Static Sashes, while a bit rare, have a great number of charges of Static Mesh at a pretty good level. They might not be strong enough to 1-shot a lot of level 11+ groups but they're at least a decent blasting option.
Overall I'd recommend Sorcerer for minimum cost resistances, but anything beyond that is up to you. Getting Acid Spray to minimum is another solid option that a lot of magic-resistant monsters don't resist, so with that set of coverage options you should be good for a majority of the dungeon.

And yeah, I agree that the 1.7 damage mod from Vampire Fang / Cross of Commanding just isn't quite enough to consistently kill everything I want. Your warrior levels are going to be a key buffer between 1-shotting those mid-level monsters reliably and risking a low roll / high HP mob surviving and breaking your swing streak.


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I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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