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> mortal characters?
grobblewobble
post Dec 21 2011, 01:30 AM
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This challenge is rather obvious, so I wonder if anyone tried it already.

One rule: if you die, you die. No resurrection possible.

Did anyone try this yet? How far did you get? I did try something like this like 10 years ago, but I don't even remember. Guess I never made it beyond level 10 or something.

Also, did you play other RPG games where this rule applies? I did play some ADOM and also as a challenge rule in another game. It takes a different mindset to play a mortal, but I have to say it makes things more interesting, once you get used to the frustration tongue.gif.


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aardless
post Dec 21 2011, 10:53 AM
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I think there's already such a challenge somewhere in this forum. I played two or three rogue-likes through the years, one was Ragnarok (same name but it's not the online game) and another for which I don't remember the name, then I briefly tried Dwarf fortress. I generally dislike that you have to learn stuff by dying, that the manual has too little explanations and that the strategy guides/walkthroughs too much. There should be a better way to learn stuff in-game instead of hoping for a blessed scroll of identification to even know what you have in your inventory, IMO.


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grobblewobble
post Dec 21 2011, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE (aardless @ Dec 21 2011, 11:53 AM) *
I think there's already such a challenge somewhere in this forum.

Maybe.. I couldn't find it, are all old threads still there?

QUOTE (aardless @ Dec 21 2011, 11:53 AM) *
There should be a better way to learn stuff in-game instead of hoping for a blessed scroll of identification to even know what you have in your inventory, IMO.

Yeah, RL have a really steep learning curve. In ADOM I learned everything from a guide, I could never have figured out the puzzles on my own. Although it does have fortune cookies with hints on them.

This post has been edited by grobblewobble: Dec 21 2011, 03:14 PM


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Nudibranch
post Dec 22 2011, 12:18 PM
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In the "money challenge" thread, I got a no-deaths character up to level 200 or so before tiring of it:

http://dejenol.com/forum/index.php?s=&...ost&p=46446


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rb10c
post Dec 22 2011, 08:02 PM
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As a frequent RLer and Dungeon Crawler, mortality is always a challenge to be accepted.

I can't remember what levels I got to, but I done well by using a 3-Giant & Mage party.


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Painbringer
post Jul 9 2012, 11:46 PM
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How about this (the way i usually play mordor):

one-man party
human character (alignment of your choice)
permanent death

last time i remember having reached 200lvl at warrior, healer and scavenger if i am not mistaken. too bad i lost those saves :S


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DarkerMuffin
post Sep 14 2012, 06:04 AM
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Why not? It's been ages since I've played, so this will be a fun way to jump back in!

I'll go with a new neutral Dwarf who will be a solo adventurer. It will be a legacy build, so all stats will be maximized from the start. I want to make it as far down as possible, so I expect my guilds to look something like this:

Nomad: This is just until level 30, for the optimum HP route.
Warrior: Probably my primary class. I'll need as much A/D as possible.
Seeker: I probably won't level much in Seeker, but I do need a few of its crucial spells.
Thief: A key class. It will probably remain close behind in levels to warrior.
Sorceror: The main offensive spell class I'll be using. I'd also like to keep it pretty close behind warrior.
Wizard: I'd like to use it to hit level 41 for the optimum HP route. I'll probably leave it at 41 for ages, but eventually level it up to make precognitive death usable.
Healer: It's absolutely critical to be able to heal if I want to survive the nastier encounters and the long term aging effects. Word of death is also great to have in the long run. This will also be a guild I'll be leveling a lot.


It's been a while since I've played and the wiki seems to be down, so I may not be remembering everything about the classes correctly! I think those are the key ones I'll be using for running a (hopefully!) long term solo character. I'll report back with how this character's progressing later on!

This post has been edited by DarkerMuffin: Sep 14 2012, 06:05 AM


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DarkerMuffin
post Sep 17 2012, 05:29 AM
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Mortal character status update!

So far, most of it has been smooth sailing! Once I got a nice start in sorcerer, it's been far easier and faster to just blast everything to pieces instead of slowly scratching away with a sword. There were a couple of scary incidents early on though! While mapping out level 3, I accidentally entered a teleporter group that put me on level 5. I had to face the Poltergeist far sooner than I had hoped. Fortunately, my spell points were high and there was nothing truly nasty (like leeches) waiting on the way to the stairs. The other was when I ran into mummies on level 2. I was paralyzed as soon as I entered the room. I wound up just sitting there while they pummeled me for a bit. If I hadn't have been following the optimum HP route, that likely would've been the end! Nothing else really notable has happened, besides an overly cranky questmaster. I've been sent to find tons of tengus and other lovely rarities. not_ok.gif

Beyond those events, it's mostly been pretty easy staying alive. I've been playing much more cautiously than I have before, since I only have the one life. I've been staying on the higher levels far longer than necessary and cleaning them out entirely for experience. I imagine that for leveling purposes, I'll probably start having to dive deeper than I like pretty soon. I might try bringing some healthy companions with me when that happens. They might make nice diversions to some of the nastier attacks... Then again, I've never liked how easily they die to random things like wisps and breath attacks.

There are a couple of monsters that do have me worried though. My biggest worry is running into a nastrum that hits me as soon as I enter the room. I've been running max stoning resistance, but there's still that small chance which has me worried. No matter how healthy I stay with healing spells, there's always the risk of a single stoning attack instantly ending my life. Giant leeches also have me worried, though as long as I keep my health high, they should be manageable... There's always the risk of a teleporter trap sending me into a nasty situation with them. Then there are the true monsters of the dungeons, lurking even deeper... I'm glad I don't have to worry about them yet!

So here are my current stats, guilds, and general character info!

QUOTE
General:
Sundance
Female Dwarf (Neutral)
Age: 16
Hits: 331
Spells: 235
Att/Def: 150/162

Stats:
Str 23 (3)
Int 23 (0)
Wis 24 (0)
Con 24 (0)
Cha 22 (0)
Dex 23 (1)

Char:
Kills: 15,817
Died: 0
Comp: 0 (Does this stand for complications?)
Mon Quest: 26
Item Quest: 5
Playtime: -1.66 Hrs (Buggy!)
Total Exp: 310,012
Total Gold: 219,094,434.

Guilds:
Nomad (30)
Warrior (30)
Seeker (30)
Thief (30)
Sorcerer (30)
Wizard (30)
Healer (30)

Guild Skill:
Fighting: 16
Magical: 17
Thieving: 26

Guild Abilities:
Thieving: 38 from Thief
Backstabbing: 4 from Thief
Critical Hit: 4 from Warrior
Multiple Swings: 3 from Warrior
Fighting: 23 from Warrior
Perception: 70 from Seeker


This post has been edited by DarkerMuffin: Sep 17 2012, 05:48 AM


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DarkerMuffin
post Sep 19 2012, 09:13 AM
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A minor update.

I just survived my first run in with giant leeches. Since I had just reentered the dungeon from the town, I had enough spell points to destroy them with arctic storm. I'm was glad to see how (relatively) little damage they did; I only lost 100 HP from them!

While leveling up on 5, I got the dominator from a couple of courriers! I was only around level 50 in warrior (I was working on lowering the sorcerer spellcosts at the time) so I'll actually be able to get the full use out of the weapon!

I've been visiting the Twisted Elf frequently, hoping to grab a useful ring for later on. I've found a ring of protection and a couple of myrrns so far. A ring of entrapment or death would be really nice to have. I've never found either, so I'm not too hopeful about this time.

It's still not too difficult surviving, but I have no idea how I'll fare once I start hitting the lowest levels. I think I'll probably be able to do decently until 13, but 14 and 15 are going to be a major challenge. Ideally, I'd like to try and take on Asmodeus and "win" the game without a single death. I really have no idea how doable this is.


EDIT:

I must have made a serious faux pas around the questmaster at some point...



This post has been edited by DarkerMuffin: Sep 20 2012, 02:05 AM


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DarkerMuffin
post Sep 26 2012, 04:37 AM
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Alas, Sundance has met her bitter and anticlimactic end. I was doing some early exploring on level 9 when I failed to disarm a teleport trap. After some quick combat, I healed up and looked around to see where I was. I was in room made of all walls and no doors. I made sure all my resistances were up, healed up a little bit so I was near max health, and started checking the walls to find any hidden doors out. It turns out I was right next to the vampire's lair on 9. As soon as I walked in, I got paralyzed and was forced to watch as the monsters kept delivering hit after hit. Since I was facing a full group of them (two vampires and two groups of shadow wolf companions) I was only losing about 50 HP each round. I was planning on running out of that room as soon as the paralysis wore off, but it seems I had the fortune to have an extra long stint with paralysis. I had to sit in the room and watch in increasing horror while I was bludgeoned to death. not_ok.gif

This was a lot of fun to do, even if the way I died was incredibly frustrating! I wanted to say that if I had been in warrior instead of thief at the time, the difference in A/D might have made a difference. Looking at the difference in equipment though, it only worked out to something like 3/12 extra A/D, quite a bit less than I thought.

I might give this another try at some point later. If I do, it will probably be spread over a longer time period. (I've been doing this over a break, so I was spending way too much time Mordoring.) Next time I might try it with a party instead, so I don't get stuck in a room while paralyzed.


Anyways, here are some shift+F6 statistics.


VERSION: 1.1
CHARACTER: "Sundance" (Neutral Dwarf)

ITEM INFO
* 1. Shadow's Blade (n)
* 2. Cuirboulli Armor (n)
* 3. Padded Leather Cap
* 4. Master's Gloves (n)
* 5. Grey Cloak (n)
* 6. Bracers of Strength (n)
* 7. Girdle of Might (n)
* 8. Boots of Stealth (n)
* 9. Amulet of Infravision
* 10. Ring of Defending (n)
* 11. White Sash (n) [14] (cursed)
* 12. Scarab of Protection (n)
* 13. Unicorn Horn [13]
* 14. Crest of the Thief [12]
15. Scroll of Spells (n) [1]
16. Gem of Healing [5]
17. Gem of Healing [6]
18. Gem of Healing [7]
19. Gem of Healing [7]

BANK ITEM INFO
0. White Sash (n) [34] (cursed)
1. Avenger (n)
2. Gloves of Strength (n)
3. Gauntlets of Might (n)
4. Orb of Life Domination (e) [6]
5. Girdle of Strength (n)
7. Amulet of Flames
8. Crest of the Sorcerer [6]
9. Studded Leather Armor (n)
10. Cloak of Invisibility (n)
11. Orb of Life Domination (g) [4]
12. Ring of Flames (g) [32]
13. Ring of Frost (e) [25]
14. Rod of Ultimate Power (n) [72]
16. Crest of the Healer [6]
18. Crest of the Warrior
19. Potion of Youth [1]
22. White Sash (n) [23] (cursed)
25. Dalyn's Laugh [28]
27. Mithril-shod Staff (n)
28. Adamantite Dagger (n)
29. White Sash (n) [21] (cursed)
32. White Sash (n) [21] (cursed)
34. White Sash (n) [27] (cursed)
35. Dominator (n)
36. Black Cloak (n)
37. Rod of Ultimate Power (e) [22]
38. White Sash (n) [20] (cursed)
39. White Sash (n) [36] (cursed)

Kills:
58,529
Died:
1
Comp:
0
Mon Quests:
88
Item Quests:
13
Item A/D:
51/63
Guild A/D:
118/128
Stats A/D:
87/87
Total A/D:
257/ 279
Time:
22:20:25
Date:
9/25/2012
Play Time:
-77.29 Hrs (That's what I get for playing through midnight...)
Created on:
9/13/2012


Stats Nat(Mod)
Str 23 (6)
Int 23 (0)
Wis 24 (0)
Con 24 (1)
Cha 22 (0)
Dex 23 (6)

GUILD INFO
Nomad (30) 45/45
Warrior (151) 108.9/118.8
Seeker (61) 48.00001/58.50001
Thief (131) 72.60001/89.09998
Sorcerer (103) 27.60001/57.5
Wizard (41) 13/30
Healer (80) 28.5/47.5

Abilities (Lead Guild)
55 Thieving (Thief)
18 Backstabbing (Thief)
20 Critical Hit (Warrior)
17 Multiple Swings (Warrior)
47 Fighting (Warrior)
77 Perception (Seeker)

Total Exp.
14,840,956 (In terms of just XP, I could've been level one in every other guild I was in and made it to level 277 in warrior. Not that that would've happened though...)
Total Gold
968,454,249 (So close to the billion mark!)


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Nudibranch
post Sep 28 2012, 06:28 AM
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Nice. A frustrating death, yes, but an epic one all the same. Makes for a great battle story.


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DarkerMuffin
post Sep 29 2012, 08:03 AM
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Glad you thought so! I was seriously annoyed with dying that way at first, but in the few days since, it's become one of my favorite deaths I've died.


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DarkerMuffin
post Oct 17 2012, 08:45 AM
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So here's a final, semiupdate about the difficulty of the challenge.

A few days after my mortal's death on level 9, I was still wondering how much of a chance solo character even has with a single life. So, I took up my dead character and pushed ahead to see if I could beat Asmodeus and company without a second death. I was actually a little surprised with the results I got.

Pushing below 9 wasn't too difficult in general. As long as I was careful and made sure to always have plenty of spell points, avoid the teleport traps on the more dangerous levels, and leave the most dangerous encounters as soon as I hit them. Fortunately, most of those incredibly dangerous groups had low dexterity, so it was rare to lose initiative. Also helpful was that most of these dangerous groups are neutral, so I had an extra 40% chance of completely avoiding the initiative issue. The only time the monsters got the jump on me was in an encounter with the Griffin earlier on.

Once I hit 15, I was pretty cautious. I tried to remain at full health at all times. I brought along a group of sun dragon companions, but I found they just couldn't survive for long, no matter how meticulous I was with keeping their health up. Considering how they did with enemy spells and breathe attacks, I figured they wouldn't even survive the initial assault just from entering Asmodeus' room. Still, I thought they might be useful for taking some of the firepower off of my character at least. I never did get to find out how much they would help though; I ran out of OoLDs too soon.

Beyond my companions constantly dying, 15 was actually wasn't as dangerous as I thought it would be. My old characters before this one would usually die very quickly on 15. (This is probably because I would go down too soon just so I could see the final level...) Besides golden eagles and gargantuans (and slimes!), I found I could handle most of the encounters without too much trouble. So far I had survived down to 15 with only a single death. I felt pretty confident that I could survive most of the non stud encounters without an issue. I decided it was time to hunt down Asmodeus.

Anyways, before I get to the hunt for Asmodeus, here were my guild levels and A/D around this time:
Nomad (30)
Warrior (285)
Seeker (126)
Thief (207)
Sorceror (173)
Wizard (41)
Healer (159)
A/D: Around 370/420, I'm not quite sure of this.
I also had a ring of death I could switch to so I could conserve SP for healing.

Unfortunately, I never got as far as Asmodeus. Early on in searching for him, I ran into the Demon Prince instead. I left the room immediately and was left with 14 HP, a disease, and a few extra birthday candles. I ran back to town to make sure I was fully prepared to face him, with full HP and full SP. I didn't have a spell that would destroy all the demon lord companions and do heavy damage to the Prince though, so I wasn't too optimistic.

Still, I had to know. I ran back down, entered his room with full HP, and blasted him with my ring of death so I could take out the companions first. I survived his entering blow, blasted the demon lords away, and promptly fell to the Prince's next blow. Afterwards, it was a process of running down, blasting him with arctic storm, and occasionally dying until finally, he succumbed to hypothermia and died. All in all, the Prince killed me three times and aged my character by decades. I expect that fighting Asmodeus would give similar results.

All in all, I doubt I could survive and defeat Asmodeus without dying, solo, unless I was able to grind out a few hundred more guild levels. Hitting warrior 450 would boost my defense by 72, and finding a cap of death would speed up an Asmodeus fight significantly. Boosting dexterity for initiative would help a lot too, so I'd probably want to switch to a thief and use the Crest of the Thief, a vorpal blade, and some of the rarer agility boosting items. I'm still pretty skeptical about surviving even then. Still, I've never used a character with levels like that, so maybe it is. I doubt I'd be patient enough to play cautiously all the way up to level 450 though, so I'll have to pass on trying this challenge anew.


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Nudibranch
post Oct 17 2012, 07:20 PM
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IMO, the prince is more deadly than Asmodeus. But to manage a no-deaths full game would take a lot of patience, as you point out. And quite a bit of luck, too. All the harder with a solo character. You've probably come closer to demonstrating what it would take than anyone else before. Good stuff.


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grobblewobble
post Nov 7 2012, 09:42 AM
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It's really impressive you made it to level 9 without dying. Stoning monsters alone make it so hard.


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DarkerMuffin
post Dec 27 2014, 05:43 PM
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So I've given this a couple more tries now that I'm on a new machine.

Flicker was a neutral dwarf. She was working in the warrior guild, facing off against the horrors of an overly attentive questmaster, when she was caught by a green slime that paralyzed her. It then proceeded to spit all over her until she died. I had forgotten level 2 even had paralyzing monsters. Shows how rusty I am.

Ozymandias was a neutral osiri. He had a much better start, despite lacking any warrior training. He was consistently clearing out level 2 and raising some straggling guild levels up, when he ran into mummies. (More level 2 paralyzers! Eek!) They paralyzed him and held him hostage, but he escaped 15 HP before an ironic death. After a trip to town to restore SP, he went back with paralysis resistance and took revenge on those piles of bandages.

A little while later, he went down to level 3, with 95% stone and drain resistances. He ran into a nastrum and promptly transformed into a pedestal, fulfilling that ironic death thing. I should've chosen better on the name front, rather than tempting fate so. (Thinking about it, osiri is only a single letter from Osiris. This guy was doomed from the start!)

Anyways, next I'll try Ulysses the human. I don't think I've ever used anything as boring as a human before! Usually I go dwarf, but I'm thinking a human will be more useful for this run. The raise complications issue doesn't matter if the character isn't allowed to be raised and most of the resistances the dwarf has won't come into play until long after I've added the resistances on through spells and items. The lower experience costs of the human means less repeat trips to level up and less chances for a nasty enemy to get lucky. The main area where the human loses out will be on stats, where the dwarf has some higher key stats. The strength stat at least might be counteracted by the size difference...

I'm not exactly sure how I'm planning level progression, besides the HP route. Generally I wind up leveling in the warrior guild ahead of the others, since they have lower XP requirements and better equipment options, plus it boosts the A/D for all the other classes to level up with later. A loose set of reference levels that I'll try to follow looks something like this.

Nomad
30 for HP.

Warrior
28 for HP.
52 for adamantite dagger. (Gotta love non class restricted items.)
100 for the mithril dagger.
131 for avenger.
153 for the vampire fang.
Then all those A/D boosting levels.

Seeker
43 for feather essence.
123 for ethereal portal.
219 for displacement.

Thief
85 for charm of opening.
124 for the shadow's blade.

Scavenger
rofl.gif

Sorceror
75 for leprosy.
85 for electric resistance.
131 for acidic spray.

Wizard
41 for HP.
123 for summon shade. (Probably not worth going beyond 41 for.)

Healer
33 for minor heal
79 for heal
159 for restoration.
385 for word of death. (Ha!)

This post has been edited by DarkerMuffin: Dec 28 2014, 12:21 AM


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i_love_rush_and_...
post Dec 28 2014, 01:04 AM
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im too scared that i wont make it far xD lmao


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Ich kann drei prozent auf deustch sprechen.

my famous mordor saying

Zeige mir, oh Lehrer. Derjenige, der Magie tut, ist töricht aber der Krieger ist stark. Der Dieb stiehlt , aber der Heiler gibt. Der Suchende sucht, aber der Hexenmeister sieht. Der Magier bezaubert, aber die Zauberer bläst. Der Nomade reist, aber der Bösewicht ist böse. Der Paladin tötet Drachen und der Ninja schleicht. Und der Scavenger? Er sucht nach Nahrung und Gold.


(translated)

Teach me, O teacher. The one who does magic is foolish, but the warrior is strong. The thief steals, but the healer gives. The seeker seeks, but the wizard sees. The mage charms, but the Sorcerer blasts. The nomad travels, but the villain is evil. The paladin kills dragons and the ninja creeps. And the scavenger? He searches for food and gold.
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DarkerMuffin
post Dec 28 2014, 06:36 PM
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Hopefully I'm past the point where my characters too fragile, so he should be able to handle my rusty mistakes! I'm running all the usual early resistances now, so hopefully that will be limited to teleporter mistakes. I ran into the poltergeist and crew through one of those mistakes a bit ago while finishing my level 3 map. I'm glad I had paralysis resistance!

When I was doing this challenge before, it felt like the difficulty curve was an inverted parabola, where characters felt very fragile early on and late in the game. Early on they haven't had the chance to really acquire affordable panic buttons and are lacking in a lot of skills. (I also probably try to push on out of level 1 too quickly...) Later on, there are just a lot of nasty encounters, all aimed at one character, who might be leveling in a guild which doesn't have as much defensive equipment.

Quick stats:

CODE
Kills:
    6,362
Died:
     0
Comp:
     0
Mon Quests:
     13
Item Quests:
     1
Item A/D:
     18/18
Guild A/D:
     55/55
Stats A/D:
     64/64
Total A/D:
     137/ 137

GUILD INFO
    Nomad (30) 45/45
    Warrior (28) 23.1/25.2
    Seeker (20) 19.2/23.4
    Thief (20) 13.2/16.2
    Sorcerer (23) 6/12.5
    Wizard (1) 0/0
    Healer (25) 9/15

Total Exp.
    703,969
Total Gold
    72,209,167


I'll probably pull thief and seeker a bit more, bring wizard to 41, bring healer to 33 for mincost minor heal, and then start seriously working on warrior for A/D.

Incidentally, I never realized how useful cause heavy wounds is, early on. It's nothing special in terms of doing damage, but it's by far the earliest spell that hits all 4 groups of enemies at once, and hits six in each group to boot. Usually I use offensive sorceror spells at this point in the game, so I'd never really tried it.

This post has been edited by DarkerMuffin: Dec 28 2014, 06:57 PM


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ranagrande
post Dec 29 2014, 01:22 PM
Post #19


Wanderer
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Group: Members Plus
Posts: 57
Joined: 29-April 05
Member No.: 180
referrer:Google



Hey, I'm doing this too! I'm also using a solo Human, but mine is Good. I've often heard it said that the most important guilds are Healer, Thief, Warrior, Seeker, and Sorcerer, so I won't be taking levels in any of those.

Here are my stats so far:

Kills: 22,289

Died: 0

Comp: 0

Mon Quests: 23

Item Quests: 2

Guild A/D: 55/55

Stats A/D: 70/70

Item A/D: 21/30

Total A/D: 146/155

Nomad (30)
Ninja (43)
Mage (30)
Wizard (41)

Total Exp.: 1,276,494

Total Gold: 75,064,108

I'm done with Nomad, but I plan to get many more levels in the other three guilds. I'll be focusing on Ninja for quite some time, as it is my primary guild for fighting, thieving, and perceiving.

This post has been edited by ranagrande: Dec 29 2014, 01:43 PM
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DarkerMuffin
post Dec 29 2014, 03:15 PM
Post #20


Fighter
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Group: Members Plus
Posts: 191
Joined: 7-August 08
From: Here
Member No.: 4,683
referrer:Search engine



The lack of thief in particular will be tough; I'm always getting mugged when I neglect thieving abilities. Hats off to you!


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