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> Solo good human
MythrilZenith
post Aug 8 2019, 08:56 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Aug 8 2019, 02:40 PM) *
So as great as the mage crest is... I really want to be a warrior (or scav) again. The GKH is GODLY compared to a vampire fang or staff of helarno.


No extra swings, but ability to 1-shot deep dwelling monsters (assuming high str, atk and fight ability)? Seems like a fair trade.

Every class has SOMETHING they're good at - or if not good, at least decent enough or "best available" for a certain race.
Except Villain. Villain has no purpose.


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I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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korexus
post Aug 8 2019, 10:49 PM
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Lots of swings and no class restriction. For a solo player. Are you sure?

I guess if you can hit the mid sized groups with a big spell, or rely on companions, you're fine. But I love me my Vampire Fangs! smile.gif


korexus.
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Roland
post Aug 8 2019, 11:06 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Aug 8 2019, 04:56 PM) *
Every class has SOMETHING they're good at - or if not good, at least decent enough or "best available" for a certain race.
Except Villain. Villain has no purpose.

In Mordor that is probably true. In Avatar, Villains were much better for two reasons: 1) their spell list included Charm of Opening; and 2) Giants could be evil, and Giants could be Villains. In a game where multi-classing was not possible, it was hard to beat a Giant Villain as a solo char.
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fischsemmel
post Aug 9 2019, 01:26 PM
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QUOTE (korexus @ Aug 8 2019, 06:49 PM) *
Lots of swings and no class restriction. For a solo player. Are you sure?

I guess if you can hit the mid sized groups with a big spell, or rely on companions, you're fine. But I love me my Vampire Fangs! smile.gif


korexus.


If I wanted to melee down packs of orps and giant hornets and crocodiles, vampire fang would be great. But I'm fighting heros and banshees and coltpixies and lamurian soldiers, etc. Even with GKH I'm not going to get more than my 3 swings in before I fail to kill something (if I even get that many). Poking stuff for 35-60 on a regular basis with vampire fang doesn't cut it, regardless of it's advantages being useful if I want to level wizard or seeker up someday smile.gif

It's not that the vampire fang is bad, just that the big hits trump all imo when fighting stuff down on deeper levels.

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Aug 9 2019, 01:55 PM
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Roland
post Aug 9 2019, 07:39 PM
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If you want to compromise, Dwarven Hammer and Avenger both give more damage than Vamp Fang and more swings the GKH. They're both good until you start hitting level-15 stud rooms.

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MythrilZenith
post Aug 9 2019, 10:03 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Aug 9 2019, 07:26 AM) *
If I wanted to melee down packs of orps and giant hornets and crocodiles, vampire fang would be great. But I'm fighting heros and banshees and coltpixies and lamurian soldiers, etc. Even with GKH I'm not going to get more than my 3 swings in before I fail to kill something (if I even get that many). Poking stuff for 35-60 on a regular basis with vampire fang doesn't cut it, regardless of it's advantages being useful if I want to level wizard or seeker up someday smile.gif

It's not that the vampire fang is bad, just that the big hits trump all imo when fighting stuff down on deeper levels.


That's a fair point.
Meanwhile, as an Elf with the lowest STR in the game combined with the dreaded Small size mod, I've given up on even hoping to efficiently melee-down any sort of dangerous monster below like floor 10. My natural STR cap of 20 prevents me from using a GKH (22 req) so it's not like that's even an option to begin with.

With Human's normal size mod, natural STR cap of 22, and solid class selection of Warrior and even Ninja (if you ever get hungry for swings), you are able to go toe to toe with most things in the game (though not as insanely effectively as a giant with a natural cap of 30 and a Very Big size mod). Your magic selection is also not bad, with a natural SP cap of 230, which is plenty good enough to splash in some high level spells for efficient clearing of large groups, boss-killing checks and panic buttons.

Honestly, I don't blame you for preferring the good ol' GKH. It saves SP for hordes which are more efficient to throw a mid-tier spell at anyway, and against bigger things it gives you a fighting chance even without SP.

I just prefer the dagger because I need to spam spells to kill anything strong already, so I need to preserve my SP in general, so melee'ing down the mid-sized groups is preferable, in which case I prefer swings to raw damage.


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I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Aug 15 2019, 01:49 PM
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I haven't been playing much the last several days, but I have gotten mage up to 250. It's been pretty nice grinding those levels along thanks to the mage crest. I actually killed a group of gargantuans this morning on level 14 without even getting hit OR losing a companion (I had two lamurian soldiers and two spectral dragons at the time), even though it took two electric fields + 1 melee round so they got some shots in on my companions. I found a gloves of doom on the shadow of death on 14, which is great because that is another item that I was specifically looking for on my old osirri that I never managed to find. 18 effective defense gloves? Yes please.

Unfortunately the +50 mage levels hasn't really done a lot to make me stronger. Using the crest 6 times per trip into the dungeon is AMAZING, but 200-250 didn't do much to drive down spell point costs. I still need 83 more mage levels to bottom out soul entrapment cost to make it more usable when I'm in warrior, scavenger, or sorcerer guilds... and the number of levels I need to minimize precog or field of death costs are just utterly ridiculous. laugh.gif.

But I'm not convinced I want to revisit sorcerer, either. It'll be 113 levels there to minimize EF and PD costs. And while that WOULD make them deliciously cheap to cast at only 11 and 10 SP, respectively, the fact that those two spells are the only reason to level sorcerer at all and that I want my character "to be a mage" ... ehhhhhhh. Precog and field hit harder than PD but less than EF at the same spell level, but they never cost as little and there seems to be more combined mind+magic resists than electric+paralysis resists on the nasty stuff on the bottom floors that I really want to nuke. But mage levels also give me a little more healing, and more importantly give soul entrapment more oomph to ensure I charm all 4 it can and/or that I can even stick charm well on stuff that has some magic resistance.

I'm not playing any more right now though, so maybe I'll check out the wiki some to see if I think it's viable to crawl around on 14-15 without stronger EF/PD before then. I guess I'm leaning towards more mage levels if for nothing else than they make it a lot safer to continue pushing deeper, and I start to get bored grinding the same 11-13 more than I have already without something else to mix it up!
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MythrilZenith
post Aug 15 2019, 02:15 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Aug 15 2019, 07:49 AM) *
I'm not playing any more right now though, so maybe I'll check out the wiki some to see if I think it's viable to crawl around on 14-15 without stronger EF/PD before then. I guess I'm leaning towards more mage levels if for nothing else than they make it a lot safer to continue pushing deeper, and I start to get bored grinding the same 11-13 more than I have already without something else to mix it up!


I don't know exactly how it goes, but there are a lot of really effective spellcasting items that you can hunt for and then use as a warrior (most should be usable in any class but some are warrior-class specific like gauntlets). Things like the Helm of Brilliance for Electric Field. What's more, they cast these spells at spell levels between 190 and 225, depending on the item, which is incredibly high compared to your spellcaster levels. I think there's something of a running joke that David Allen just hated spellcasters, because there are items that can cast basically any late-game spell you could want (though they can be pretty rare to find).

I definitely understand the feeling of burnout, though, especially with just how much you've been grinding at the game over the past few weeks. You took this character from nothing to 200/300 in multiple classes in about a month. That's got to be over a hundred hours just on this character alone! I get zoned out and bored after a significant amount of grinding, hence why anymore I only play Mordor if I am either recording or watching a video on the side - I'm the type of person who needs a lot of mental stimulation to remain interested, and though there's still a good amount of thought and planning that go into a Mordor character, the actual grind itself can get a bit dull.

Not to say that I find Mordor inherently boring - it still gives an experience I've never found anywhere else - I just agree that the endless grind of the same stuff over and over can wear you down after awhile.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Aug 15 2019, 02:18 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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Roland
post Aug 15 2019, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Aug 15 2019, 10:15 AM) *
I get zoned out and bored after a significant amount of grinding, hence why anymore I only play Mordor if I am either recording or watching a video on the side - I'm the type of person who needs a lot of mental stimulation to remain interested, and though there's still a good amount of thought and planning that go into a Mordor character, the actual grind itself can get a bit dull.

I typically play Mordor while watching music programs I record from PBS (e.g., Austin City Limits or Sun Studio Sessions). But because I am less than 100% focused on the game, I sometimes do something stupid - e.g., killing a monster on auto-pilot before I realize it was a Tengu and I should have charmed it for confinement.
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MythrilZenith
post Aug 16 2019, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE (Roland @ Aug 15 2019, 01:22 PM) *
I typically play Mordor while watching music programs I record from PBS (e.g., Austin City Limits or Sun Studio Sessions). But because I am less than 100% focused on the game, I sometimes do something stupid - e.g., killing a monster on auto-pilot before I realize it was a Tengu and I should have charmed it for confinement.

Killing friendly 'j'oining monsters is a serious issue I've had in the past. I'm getting better at noticing them, mostly by training myself to look at the monsters before deciding if I want to 'f'ight or cast a buffer.
I'm still never going to live down my mis-clicked attack of a friendly Morey Bilk that 'j'oined me. I freaking did it on recording, too... :shame:


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Aug 17 2019, 11:57 AM
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Well, I've been starting to poke around on 15 while working on mage levels. Mostly on memory, but with a bit of help from maps, I'm avoiding the stud rooms, and I'm only going down there after I clear all the potential pariah rooms on 12-14. So far I've managed to kill a magi lord, a couple warlords, a couple masters of shadows, besides the more usual stuff, but don't have anything to show for it buy 3 more years of age (oops, meleed a daemon lord instead of nuking him) and more open bank slots (as I use up some scrolls of spells and fate potion).

Spending a bit of time down there has me decided on taking mage to 333 at least, to minimize soul entrapment cost. I need about 11 million more experience, which doesn't sound too awful considering I'm up at like 70 million total now or something like that. Whether I keep going from there for bigger numbers and to chase 385 to minimize precognitive death's costs too is up in the air. But I'll need the cheap SE casts for when I level my other guilds more, since I refuse to stay on 13 and above just for the sake of safer grinding.

Somewhat surprisingly (to me, anyway), I don't think I'm going to spend much more time on scavenger, at least not until warrior a/d is maxed and mage is close to level 400. I used to think it'd need to be my highest class in order to give me a good-enough disarm chance to not be getting chewed up by fire and exploding and blackout traps on the lower levels (and I'll still just never open slime at all, or teleporting on 15 (well unless it's a black gremlin or pariah chest), or withering unless it's a box from a good monster), but I don't really notice the very regular disarm failures being as much of a problem as I expected, and short of the named thief stuff on 15 I'm not getting robbed hardly at all, and more backstabs are not a big factor really.

More warrior would be nice to finish up my guild a/d though, but it's still over 100 more levels just for like 40 more defense, so it's taking a back seat for now.


Hopefully I'll get to play some more today, and I'll find an upgrade or two on 15 and finally start seeing some pariahs. I had 3 blessings with my osirri by this point, but my human hasn't even seen 3 pariahs yet sad.gif And I really need those damn things, cause I'm not walking into 15 stud rooms until my dex is high enough that I have a good chance of getting the first action against the big fella or his prince buddy, and of course the massive a/d doesn't hurt either.

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Aug 17 2019, 11:58 AM
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fischsemmel
post Sep 3 2019, 11:51 AM
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Well I haven't played in over a week as I was spending time camping and playing another game, but this morning I spent about 50 minutes doing a run of my usual 12-15 route as I continue to level mage up (290.5 to start this session).

I saw my third pariah finally, in the first possible spot on 12, but yet again no chest. There's honestly a decent chance I'll ragequit Mordor if I go much more with this shit pariah luck... laugh.gif

But I ran all the pariah rooms on 12, 13, 14, hit white dragon spots on return trips to town, moved around on 15 on the south and west areas where I just generally look for pariahs, chests, and named stuff. I did see a dragon queen, but no item came from it. I survived 3 separate gargantuan attacks, though one was a pretty narrow escape cause I ethereal portaled into them and had to run a ways to get away... I'll probably stop using that exact route to avoid that happening again. Precognitive death hits gargantuans pretty hard, but they REALLY have a lot of hits so it still isn't quite enough to handle them in a comfortable way. I probably need mage in 350-400 range for that.

I did add up 4 whole levels in my ~50 minutes of play though, who h seems like it's still nice progress. Minimum soul entrapment cost is approaching steadily. I think I can get by without more sorcerer levels long enough to start finding lightning swords (well, they're easy to find really, but too risky ATM cause going into that lair risks also going into the next lair and destroyer of the deep is nasty nasty). I'll need a WoD item eventually too cause I really doubt I've got it in me to even start working on wizard levels! Maybe I'll zip out some more warrior and scavenger before I push beyond minimum SE cost, but even that will still be a ways off unless I start playing a bunch again!
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 4 2019, 04:32 PM
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Good to have you back! Mordor can't keep anyone away forever, it seems diablo.gif

You've seen 3 Pariahs, but no chest among them? Dang, I've yet to even see a single Pariah. Oh well, it will happen eventually.

Sorcerer has spells for most situations, but the most effective spells (PD and EF) are less effective against certain monster types (Daemon Lord) that I REALLY want to instant kill, so at this point I'm basically going to be keeping a buffer prepared just for those encounters. as a primary Sorcerer I have more variety of spells able to hit more variety of monsters, but at the cost of having to manage multiple different buffers. Give and take, I suppose.


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I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 5 2019, 02:29 PM
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Yeah, I relied heavily on EF and PD with my osirri. I'd love to have them stronger with my human too, but I don't think I have it left in me. I actually tinkered with a fresh party to try a hardcore playthrough yesterday instead of playing my human... laugh.gif

Pariahs are a pain. I literally do nothing in the dungeon except run a route through all the pariah rooms 12-14 and some of them on 15. Blessings, fairly random drops on 14-15, and experience are 98% of what can help me at this point.

For a while I thought that my human would be able to win without any blessings, because of having companions to reduce the chance of getting killed in 1 round by the big fella or his prince buddy. But lately I'm not so sure. I've been starting to think they won't help enough since my 6+ lower dex means like half the flame devils and probably asmo will act before I do and they'll just wipe everything out with breath weapons and leave me to eat melee attacks by myself.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 5 2019, 02:37 PM
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It's possible I was playing my osirri more than my human, but for comparison:

Osirri at ~7 weeks was about 400 seeker, 350 sorc, 300 thief, 250 healer, had seen 42 pariahs who dropped 7 blessings, and killed asmo without dying (to asmo). The dungeon was basically fully explored.

Human at ~2 months is about 330 warrior, 280 mage, 250 scavenger, 200 sorc. He's only seen 3 pariahs, and 0 blessings, and has only ever entered the one stud room on 15 that has mythicals but no demons, devils, or undead. I haven't even explored all of any floor below 6... Hah

Then again, my mage has only died twice compared to 12ish for my osirri. Most of the difference is my mage never uses displacement or teleport, and has yet to face destroyer of the deep or the potentially-nasty 15 stud rooms.

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Sep 5 2019, 02:50 PM
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 5 2019, 04:49 PM
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Could very well be the case of just raw binge time. Human should have a much lower exp requirement for everything compared to Osiri, so you're probably just not playing nearly as much (and also you're leveling in guilds that don't have as much "bang for their buck" as the neutral-exclusive Thief and Healer guilds, two of the best guilds in the game).

The extra high dex of an Osiri is definitely their biggest draw, and combined with that and a lack of Thief access from being non-neutral you are really getting the rough end of traps and monster initiative. I think the trap thing definitely makes exploring the dungeon less fun / take longer, since disabling traps gives a lot of exp.

There's also elements of luck, like not getting Pariah-lucky, and possibly some elements of efficient play in regards to teleport spells, getting to the more exp- and loot-rich areas and getting out without having to trek through quite as much dungeon.


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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