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grobblewobble
post Oct 18 2005, 01:30 PM
Post #1


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As Nudibranch stated, the guilds and races need to be adjusted to ensure each guild and each race has its uses. Ideally, any combination of guild and race that is allowed should have its own special use.

I don't know what the current ideas of the development team are about this. I do
have some ideas on it myself. First of all, the most basic needs of any solo character
or party are thiefing and healing. Currently, a character or party can easily
get the best of both of these abilities by joining healer and thief. I would
suggest to restrict the thief guild to evil guys and the healer guild to good
guys. This would be logical, and it would immediately improve the usefullness of
some lesser-used guilds. Other suggestions:

Human:
Those already have enough use as is. Still, potions of youth and dragon blood
should arguably made a little less rare, or there should be a spell to resist
aging attacks.

Gnome:
Thought by many to be the crappiest race ever. The best solution, IMHO, would be
to increase the effectiveness / usefullness of Charisma. The chances of having a
creature join you should depend more strongly on Charisma. (I mean, the
dependency should not be lineair, but quadratical or even exponential.) And the chances of
creatures losing bind levels should depend on it MUCH stronger (and less on
guild level).

Elf:
The effects of int and wis aren't important enough yet. They should influence spell
damage as well as mana.

Giant:
They are good enough already.

Ogre:
Does anyone really use these in Mordor?
Adding another guild option, like scavenger or villain, would help them. Still,
one of their greatest advantages should have been their high natural
resistances. It is a shame that natural resistances don't really matter in this
game. Suggestion: increase the effectiveness of resistances gradually, like in
Demise, but ADD spell resistance to natural resistance. This way, an Ogre would
still be more resilient than a Giant when they both have been buffered by the
same high-level sorcerer.
In fact, when I said add, I did not mean it literally. If the ogre has 75% fire
resist, and a sorcerer adds 80%, the total would become 75% + (80% * 25%) = 95%. This way of adding looks like it is assymetrical, but in fact it is a commutative operation. 80% + (75% * 20%) = 95%, too.
Resistances from items could work the same way.


Dwarf:
If thieves are going to be evil only and healer good only, I fear this race is
going to be crippled. One option is to allow them only as good characters, rather than neutral.

Morloch:
They make excellent warrior/spellcasters. That should be enough.

Osiri:
Good enough.

Troll:
The villain, ninja and scavenger guilds all need to be improved to make trolls
worth playing.


nomad:
Already usefull enough, I think. Nomad was never intented to be a very serious
guild anyway.

warrior:
Too usefull, but that should be solved by increasing the usefullness of other
guilds. They are fairly restrictive about races that can join, which is good.

paladin:
The advantage this guild SHOULD have, is that a healing spell is casted at the
spell level of the highest guild that learns the spell and at the lowest mana
cost among guilds that learn the spell. However, a paladin/mage does NOT have
such an advantage right now! I mean, the mechanism works, but it is not an
advantage they have over a healer/warrior. I don't know if it's a bug or a feature, but a warrior/healer casts restoration
at the spell level of his warrior guild, too!
If this "feature" is removed from the game, and healers allow good characters, a
healer/paladin becomes a very nice option. In addition, it would be cool if the Holy Sword would be some great weapon. Something like the Menghus in Demise, for example.

ninja:
If the multiple swing system is changed to work like it does in Demise, the
ninja guild starts shining. This system allows more interesting trade-offs
between different weapons, too. On the flipside, I have the impression it is too easy to
beat monsters to death in Demise. With a party with 24 or so total swings, this
should be no surprise. So maybe the damage characters deal should be decreased,
or the number of hitpoints monsters have should be increased. dntknw.gif

villain:
Just as a paladin/healer could be a nice good character, the mage/villain could
become its evil counterpart. Still, their fighting skills should be improved, or
they should get access to morkal spells, like in demise.

scavenger:
Their fighting and thiefing skills should be improved. Since good parties can't
have a thief, if my suggestion is going to be implemented, this guild would
provide the alternative, as they allow any alignment.

seeker:
No comments. Their high perception and reasonable fighting skills will still be
reason enough to use them.

mage:
DESTROY THE RING OF ENTRAPMENT! diablo.gif Or at least its use should be restricted to mages (but they probably won't use it).
EDIT: The use of Orb of Life Domination should also be restricted to mages IMO. In Mordor, a healer who uses an OoLD is better at keeping a companion for a long time than a mage can ever hope to be.
EDIT: Keeping companions should be made a little more attractive in itself. In mordor, you get like 15% of the experience for companion kills. That's just too little -- you're way better off killing the monsters yourself. Something like 50% would be more reasonable, I'd say.

sorcerer:
Once again, addition of morkal spells would be nice. Their other spells need
to be balanced too, as I heard Nudibranch say on several occasions. And no more
helms of brilliance, please. Spellcasting items are nice, as long as the spell
levels aren't so ridiculously high.
Another idea is to restrict access to this guild to evil characters. Especially if they are going to get morkal spells. A good character casting morkal spells, that is just ridiculous.
This idea is especially interesting, as an evil character or party could use morkal spells instead of healing that way. To make sure a good party can still cast resistances, the healer and wizard guilds could get them at lesser cost, though still more expensive than a sorcerer. And it may be wise to restrict some other guilds, like seeker, mage, or even warrior, to neutral.

healer:
There is no substitute for their healing spells, fortunately. Unfortunately,
there exists such a thing as a Cap of Death. That would almost be alright, if
spellcasters were the only characters allowed to wear it.

wizard:
It would be a nice alternative to the seeker guild, if the required experience
wasn't so high. Some special items, only usuable by wizards, would also be
stylish.

This post has been edited by grobblewobble: Oct 18 2005, 11:44 PM


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Posts in this topic
- grobblewobble   Guilds and races   Oct 18 2005, 01:30 PM
- - BLauritson   What are these "morkal" spells that you ...   Oct 18 2005, 03:57 PM
- - grobblewobble   Oops, sorry I forgot to explain. Morkal spells are...   Oct 18 2005, 04:11 PM
- - Crusher Junior   the race and guild balancing issue has been discus...   Oct 18 2005, 11:20 PM
- - Nudibranch   QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Oct 18 2005, 09:30 AM)...   Oct 20 2005, 07:53 AM
|- - grobblewobble   The "Sigil of the Ancients" would also p...   Oct 20 2005, 10:22 AM
- - Taffer   Needs halflings. Needs more cowbell. Agreeing wit...   Oct 20 2005, 11:26 AM
- - Nudibranch   QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Oct 20 2005, 06:22 AM)...   Oct 20 2005, 06:16 PM
- - Painbringer   OMG!!! You people write too much! ...   Oct 20 2005, 10:57 PM
- - Crusher Junior   Just replying to a few of the points: Mages could...   Oct 20 2005, 11:13 PM
- - fart642000   maybe instead of age resistance, an age effect ded...   Oct 21 2005, 04:16 AM
- - grobblewobble   QUOTE I'd rather balance Giants and other race...   Oct 21 2005, 12:03 PM
|- - fart642000   QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Oct 21 2005, 08:03 AM)...   Oct 21 2005, 11:03 PM
- - slimboy76   The only part i dislike is sorcerer only for evil,...   Oct 21 2005, 12:40 PM
- - aardless   Splitting healer from thief *and* lowering the spe...   Oct 21 2005, 05:50 PM
|- - grobblewobble   Wow, this discussion really gets going. EDIT: ...   Oct 22 2005, 01:37 AM
||- - fart642000   QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Oct 21 2005, 09:37 PM)...   Oct 22 2005, 02:46 AM
||- - Painbringer   QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Oct 22 2005, 01:37 AM)...   Oct 22 2005, 11:52 AM
|- - Sfon   Yes I know this is an old topic, but this forum mo...   Oct 9 2006, 03:33 AM
- - Nudibranch   QUOTE (Crusher Junior @ Oct 20 2005, 07:13 PM...   Oct 21 2005, 09:36 PM
- - Braindead   quotes overflow after a certain number grobble, so...   Oct 22 2005, 08:03 AM
- - Keltosh   Well this is too long, I can't answer eveyone....   Oct 22 2005, 08:43 AM
- - grobblewobble   @ Keltosh: where did you read something about evil...   Oct 22 2005, 02:10 PM
|- - Keltosh   QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Oct 22 2005, 04:10 PM)...   Oct 22 2005, 03:25 PM
|- - Nudibranch   Whether you call it logic, realism, or common sens...   Oct 23 2005, 01:15 AM
|- - Keltosh   QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Oct 23 2005, 03:15 AM)Whe...   Oct 23 2005, 11:24 AM
|- - Crusher Junior   QUOTE (Keltosh @ Oct 23 2005, 07:24 AM)1) Hea...   Oct 23 2005, 09:48 PM
|- - Keltosh   QUOTE (Crusher Junior @ Oct 23 2005, 11:48 PM...   Oct 24 2005, 12:41 AM
- - Captain   I'm running late so I'll keep this short, ...   Oct 22 2005, 11:18 PM
- - Bullfrog   One of the things I think needs to change is that ...   Oct 23 2005, 04:48 AM
- - grobblewobble   Well, I am probably repeating myself here, but: -...   Oct 24 2005, 11:08 AM
- - aardless   @Nudi: you're right I forgot Defense (and Atta...   Oct 24 2005, 03:28 PM
|- - Captain   Maybe there could be a way for certain things to w...   Oct 25 2005, 12:13 AM
- - grobblewobble   IMHO Abolish Undead should deal more damage than t...   Oct 24 2005, 05:16 PM
- - BeefontheBone   *quickly protects money pouch*   Oct 25 2005, 09:35 AM
- - slimboy76   Well, how about simplify things, Healer:Good or Ev...   Oct 25 2005, 10:24 AM
- - grobblewobble   @Slimboy: You are basically suggesting to create 2...   Oct 25 2005, 12:57 PM
|- - fart642000   QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Oct 25 2005, 08:57 AM)...   Oct 25 2005, 08:51 PM
- - Outside666   QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Oct 18 2005, 02:30 PM)...   Nov 1 2005, 11:20 AM
- - Rotlung   Sorcerers can have any alignment. Evil Sorcerers c...   Nov 16 2005, 02:44 PM
|- - Crusher Junior   QUOTE (Rotlung @ Nov 16 2005, 09:44 AM)Sorcer...   Nov 16 2005, 10:01 PM
- - Gutsy   I think he means as a seperate guild. In which cas...   Nov 17 2005, 01:43 AM
- - Rotlung   No. A specialised Sorcerer guild exclusive to Evil...   Nov 17 2005, 04:00 PM
- - fentonlw   Thief guild is best Neutral/Evil, restricting to e...   Jan 20 2006, 09:33 AM
- - grobblewobble   The idea behind most of what I said, was to create...   Jan 20 2006, 05:58 PM
- - Mister   Hi! I'm new here, but have played mordor (...   Feb 26 2006, 03:40 AM
|- - Crusher Junior   QUOTE (Mister @ Feb 25 2006, 10:40 PM)About h...   Feb 26 2006, 04:33 AM
||- - Mister   QUOTE (Crusher Junior @ Feb 26 2006, 04:33 AM...   Feb 26 2006, 04:53 AM
|- - grobblewobble   QUOTE (Mister @ Feb 26 2006, 04:40 AM)About e...   Oct 9 2006, 01:17 PM
- - fart642000   other option for extra swing could be to cut 1 fro...   Feb 26 2006, 04:13 AM
- - Mongo   I personally think the Con bonus is overrated, I p...   Feb 26 2006, 05:11 AM
- - Nudibranch   The greatest importance of high HP is staying aliv...   Feb 26 2006, 11:36 AM
|- - Sfon   QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 26 2006, 06:36 AM)a g...   Feb 26 2006, 08:46 PM
|- - Nudibranch   QUOTE (Sfon @ Feb 26 2006, 04:46 PM)That coul...   Feb 26 2006, 11:37 PM
- - Mongo   @Nudibranch : I agree about the instadeath encount...   Feb 26 2006, 03:06 PM
- - slimboy76   I think the constitution system is good as it is. ...   Feb 27 2006, 07:30 AM
- - Mlaedoxael   Hey have you ever thought of adding Items (Tomes, ...   Jul 3 2006, 06:23 PM
- - Nudibranch   Hmm, an ultra-rare item that permanently increases...   Jul 3 2006, 07:18 PM
- - Gutsy   Yeah, I think that ideas a good one. A 5% increase...   Jul 3 2006, 07:25 PM
- - Crusher Junior   Sfon, every one of your comments has 100% merrit. ...   Oct 9 2006, 04:04 AM
- - Sfon   QUOTE (Crusher Junior @ Oct 20 2005, 06:13 PM...   Oct 9 2006, 12:17 PM
- - Sfon   QUOTE (Crusher Junior @ Oct 8 2006, 11:04 PM)...   Oct 9 2006, 01:56 PM
- - grobblewobble   First, non-equippable items can never be recharged...   Oct 9 2006, 02:17 PM
- - Sfon   Your statements about my OoLD idea being a bad one...   Oct 9 2006, 03:52 PM
|- - grobblewobble   QUOTE The change I was talking about was the one w...   Oct 10 2006, 02:01 PM
- - Motrax   I would agree that ninja's should be largely u...   Oct 10 2006, 03:32 PM
- - Sfon   Morkal (damage enemy while healing self) spells ar...   Oct 10 2006, 07:23 PM
- - grobblewobble   Wow Sfon, all of this sounds very good. Your argum...   Oct 10 2006, 09:25 PM
- - Sfon   Yeah, I was sort of thinking of backstabbing when ...   Oct 10 2006, 10:30 PM
- - grobblewobble   If it's not too much of a spoiler to tell, I...   Jul 5 2010, 06:30 PM
|- - Nudibranch   QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Jul 5 2010, 02:30 ...   Jul 5 2010, 10:39 PM
- - Danjen   What Nudi said. Our goal (or at least mine) is to ...   Jul 5 2010, 11:55 PM
- - rb8f   Necroing this old-ish topic- For my two cents. bol...   Jan 25 2011, 08:30 PM
|- - grobblewobble   QUOTE (rb8f @ Jan 25 2011, 09:30 PM) Osir...   Jan 26 2011, 03:29 PM
- - grobblewobble   I'm not entirely sure if a guild being "h...   Jan 26 2011, 10:33 AM
- - rb8f   what i mean by healthy, is poison resistance, as w...   Jan 26 2011, 10:57 AM
- - korexus   I like the idea of Warriors having restricted acce...   Jan 26 2011, 01:47 PM
- - rb8f   What i think is that powerful guilds should not be...   Jan 26 2011, 02:10 PM
- - rb8f   look above. i think thieves would rob from anyone,...   Jan 26 2011, 03:49 PM
- - Danjen   QUOTE (Korexus)stuff I've always thought warri...   Jan 26 2011, 03:59 PM
- - rb8f   what i'm trying to do is get generalist guilds...   Jan 26 2011, 04:09 PM
- - Danjen   I think generalist guilds would be fine if their s...   Jan 26 2011, 06:00 PM
- - rb8f   what i try to accomplish is that each alignment ha...   Jan 26 2011, 06:08 PM
|- - damned   just an idea here but, how about changeing the ali...   Oct 24 2011, 12:06 AM
- - Roland   Is anyone still thinking about this? One suggesti...   May 2 2017, 11:37 PM


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