IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Dungeon-crawling tips and tricks (semi-spoilers)
Nudibranch
post Feb 1 2005, 06:03 AM
Post #1


Fire Master
*********

Group: Mordor MP Prog
Posts: 1,613
Joined: 19-November 04
Member No.: 71
referrer:search



Through playing and reading the boards, I've collected several tricks and techniques for playing the game, some of which I've seen posted elsewhere, some of which I haven't. I'm going to try to list all that I can think of here.

Some players might consider some of this information to be spoilers. Most of it's pretty general advice, dealing with various aspects of game mechanics that aren't always well documented.



To minimize loss of items to thieving monsters, always keep your thief selected (in the Party window). The game only checks against the highlighted character's thieving skill when resisting thieving attempts.

I think the same thing holds true for monsters that offer to join your party: only the highlighted character's Charisma and/or guild level is taken into account.

To speed combat, keep the rearmost character in the party selected. Combat goes much quicker when each attack (yours and your foes') are not displayed. The rearmost character will be attacked least often, and usually does the least attacking (the monsters may all be killed before it's his/her turn to attack).

Keep the slowest XP gainer at the front of the party, to keep your characters' advancement even. If one character keeps getting pinned early, keep them in the back. I tend to keep my Giant in the back and my spellcasters in the front; the giant pins very quickly and the spellcasters get to cast their spells against a full pack of monsters, getting the most out of their spell points.

Leveling in Nomad (a la Slimey's Optimal Leveling Route) is not just useful for being able to use powerful daggers at low guild levels; its greatest virtue is how rapidly Nomads gain A/D (until they max out at level 197). With a higher Defense, your party can safely delve deeper than they could if they were just leveling in other guilds (even Warrior), which allows them to gain XP much faster, and find cooler stuff. Just be sure to not level in Nomad higher than your other guilds (after level 30, anyway), so that you get 2 HP per level instead of the Nomad's 1.

High HP is a huge factor in survivability. So the Optimal Leveling Route really is useful. At the very least, try to get your Con as high as you can before level 30, so you get as many bonus HP as possible before you reach "ML", as described in the HelpLesson.

Don't bother with generalist guilds, in particular, Scavenger, Villain, and maybe Wizard. The "special ability rates" the HelpLesson describes are deceptive: The warrior's "12" in fighting (and 9 in critical hits) proves to be perhaps twice as effective as the next-best fighting guild at high levels. The same thing goes for thieves: their "9" in thieving is far better than Scavengers' 7.5.

Warriors fight far, far better than any other guild. Try to level all your characters in Warrior, or failing that, Ninja or Paladin. (Although having an Osiri thief is very tempting...)

If running a party, have your characters specialize in two guilds at most (plus Nomad). In particular, it's useful to have your primary thief and primary healer be two different characters, so that you can get both to a high level quickly. Thieving, healing, and fighting skill are all-important in the dungeon. (My party consists of a Warrior/Seeker, Warrior/Healer, and a Thief/Sorcerer. They progressed quickly and are pretty well-balanced.)

Don't worry about racial XP modifiers. The difference between the fastest levelers (Humans) and slowest (Trolls) is only 25%. Take the race you want. Dwarves are hard to beat for their versatility; Giants make devastating warriors. sneaky.gif But other races are very playable too, as long as you balance your party well.

For weapons, damage modifier tends to be more important than number of swings. (Although at least 2 swings are nice.) You don't get each additional swing unless the prior swing kills a monster, so damage modifier influences whether you actually get those swings in combat.

Spells work in a way similar to swings: If a spell targets 8 monsters in 4 groups, it will only affect (up to) 8 monsters if each successive monster in that group is killed. If the first monster survives, no more monsters in that group will be hurt.

However, each group is handled separately when calculating damage, so even if the first monster in the first group survives, the spell will still damage at least one monster in each successive group (if it affects 4 groups). But learn which spells tend to kill which monster groups, and only cast a spell if it will tend to kill most of the monsters you face.

Spellcasters can potentially gain XP faster than any other type of character. They can wipe out large groups of monsters (such as ants, slaves, or water-dwellers) with a single spell, and get all the XP for the kills. The Element spells (Leprosy in particular) are perfect against medium-size monster groups that are quite common on the middle levels of the dungeon.

Spellcasters can cast their spells even when leveling in a different guild, so it's useful to give every character a few dozen levels in a guild that can cast offensive spells, if at all possible, to give them a fast way to gain XP.

Even if you don't level everyone in spellcasting guilds, there are several items that cast good offensive spells. Best of all are sashes. They cast great spells for their level and can be wielded by any guild. They're not ultra-rare, and they're not worth anything at the store, so there's no point to saving them. Possibly keep one of each type in the bank, but use up any others you happen to find.

You'll never get quested for cursed items, so you don't have to save them. I kept one of each type I found, just 'cause they're fun to look at.

When selling items, give partially-identified stuff to your smartest/highest level character. (S)he may be able to ID it better, fetching a higher price.

The Seer doesn't know where a given monster is in the dungeon. All he actually knows is where that monster type tends to spawn, on a room-by-room basis. He is at least useful for telling you what level the monster first appears on, although sometimes a given monster will be more common lower in the dungeon, as a companion to a higher-level monster.

Less powerful healing spells (Minor Heal vs Heal, Heal vs. Restoration) tend to be more "efficient" (more points healed per SP expended) than their more powerful counterparts. The more powerful spells become more efficient once they are near their minimum costs (about 5 for Heal, 10 for Restoration).

In order to minimize aging, heal your party fully before taking the stairs back into town. Have your healer keep some SP in reserve in order to do this.

Once you have a healer, try to keep your party's hit points near maximum at all times. But don't waste SP by healing characters fully until you're about to return to town.

Buffer Ethereal Portal at your peril. sneaky.gif

When lost, hold down shift+down arrow; this will move you back and forth in the same spot until you figure out where you are. (Just make sure you're not near a pit or other hazard first.) This trick is also useful when mapping; when in a Stud or Anti-magic room, you can move back and forth in each spot until your characters ID all the squares. Again, watch out for pits.

When first mapping the dungeon, spin around in place after each step. This will help you spot teleporters, pits, chutes, and quicksand before you blunder into them.

When opening a chest, you can find out what type of trap it has by cycling through your characters several times by hitting the 'N' key. Whichever trap type your thief IDs it as most often is likely to be the true trap type. If you are playing solo, you can achieve the same effect by stepping in and out of the room with the chest several times, or even by moving another window (like the party window) in front of where the chest type is displayed.

Never open slime traps. The chances of one containing something useful are low; the chance of it destroying something you do want is high. (If you're already wearing it, you want it.) If it was left behind by a special monster and you're dying to open it, one thing you can do is have your thief remove all his/her items and give them to other party members. A slime trap will only destroy items in the inventory of the character opening the trap. Avoid rooms which tend to spawn item-destroying monsters for the same reason (once you identify such rooms).

Likewise, a fear trap will only scare away the companions of the character opening the chest. So don't bother giving your thief companions.

Until you get a decent Seeker in the party, you might want to avoid opening Teleport traps too. The easiest way to re-form your party after you trigger a teleport trap (or hit a random teleporter) is to have your Seeker (or Wizard) cast "Soul Search", then Displacement. Type in the offset coordinates provided by Soul Search in the Displacement dialogue box, 'a'dd the party member, reshuffle party order if necessary, and you're back to normal.

One advantage of making your healer and thief separate characters is that you can lengthen your time in the dungeon by having your healer open Fate traps when (s)he is low on spell points. (Save any Fate traps you come across until your SP is low.) All Fate does is randomizes your SP and HP, which means you're likely to get a few SP from it. A poor thief is likely to trigger the trap, so it's like a free Elixir of Fate. But keep a healing item or scroll of spells on hand in case it turns out badly.

If you try to cast a high-level offensive spell (level 8 or higher) against a group of peaced monsters, the game will tell you it "takes too long to throw when peaced." You can usually get around this by starting combat, then immediately casting the spell you intended to (via a buffer). If you start combat by pressing 'f'ight, the spell won't kick in until the next round. But if you cast a lower-level spell immediately followed by the higher level spell (both via buffers), the higher level spell will usually be cast before the monsters can respond. It also sometimes works to 'o'pen an (unlocked) chest immediately followed by a buffered high-level spell.

Edit Feb. 01 2005: Added section on attack spells & XP.
Edit Feb. 02 2005: Added sections on sashes & cursed items.
Edit Feb. 02 2005: Added section on casting high-level spells against peaced monsters; added section on seekers & teleport traps.


--------------------
I would have started with lasers. Eight o'clock. Day one.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
A. J. Raffles
post Feb 1 2005, 07:50 AM
Post #2


Evil Being
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 3,326
Joined: 25-September 04
From: At university. Shhh, I ought to be working...
Member No.: 11
referrer:Braindead



QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 1 2005, 06:03 AM)
Don't bother with generalist guilds, in particular, Scavenger, Villain, and maybe Wizard.  The "special ability rates" the HelpLesson describes are deceptive: The warrior's "12" in fighting (and 9 in critical hits) proves to be perhaps twice as effective as the next-best fighting guild at high levels.  The same thing goes for thieves: their "9" in thieving is far better than Scavengers' 7.5.

This only applies to parties, though. For example if you want to play a solo Osiri (and Osiris are rather a nice race for soloing), joining Scavenger is actually a good idea, because it's the best way of getting at least some points in fighting and an additional swing or two. And don't forget that Wizard is the only guild except Healer which teaches one of the most powerful combat spells in the game. So if you have a good or evil spellcaster, his only chance of getting this spell is to join Wizard.
QUOTE
Don't worry about racial XP modifiers.  The difference between the fastest levelers (Humans) and slowest (Trolls) is only 25%.

Obviously you've never tried to level an Osiri Healer above level 200... rolleyes.gif I agree that racial XP modifiers don't make a huge difference in the early game, but eventually they will, especially since they're added to the guild XP modifiers.
QUOTE
When selling items, give partially-identified stuff to your smartest character.  (S)he may be able to ID it better, fetching a higher price.

Partial ID of items in your inventory also appears based on the character's guild level or perception (or possibly both), though.
QUOTE
Less powerful healing spells (Minor Heal vs Heal, Heal vs. Restoration) tend to be more "efficient" (more points healed per SP expended) than their more powerful counterparts.  The more powerful spells become more efficient once they are near their minimum costs (about 5 for Heal, 10 for Restoration).

But once you have reached the spell level required to cast Restoration at minimum cost, it's certainly a lot more efficient than Minor Heal. Keep in mind, though, that because of a bug healing spells are always cast at the power level of the guild you currently have selected (so if you're a level 15 Thief / level 150 Healer, Minor Heal will in fact be more efficient than Restoration while you're levelling as a Thief, although it probably wasn't intended this way).
QUOTE
Never open slime traps.  The chances of one containing something useful are low; the chance of it destroying something you do want is high.  (If you're already wearing it, you want it.)  If it was left behind by a special monster and you're dying to open it, one thing you can do is have your thief remove all his/her items and give them to other party members.  A slime trap will only destroy items in the inventory of the character opening the trap.  Avoid rooms which tend to spawn item-destroying monsters for the same reason (once you identify such rooms).
Likewise, a fear trap will only scare away the companions of the character opening the chest.  So don't bother giving your thief companions.
Until you get a decent Seeker in the party, you might want to avoid opening Teleport traps too.

Once you have a high level thief (level 300 onwards), none of these traps is going to be a high risk, though. Unless perhaps the trapped chest is on level 15.


--------------------
The description-writers' mantra (as formulated by Beef):
No more imbuing unless it's really necessary...

http://www.reloaded.org/

"I am adorably stupid, and want everything explained to me - when the meaning is pleasant." - Gwendolen Harleth

No more finals-stress - what am I going to do with myself??
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nudibranch
post Feb 1 2005, 10:39 AM
Post #3


Fire Master
*********

Group: Mordor MP Prog
Posts: 1,613
Joined: 19-November 04
Member No.: 71
referrer:search



QUOTE (A. J. Raffles @ Feb 1 2005, 03:50 AM)
This only applies to parties, though. For example if you want to play a solo Osiri (and Osiris are rather a nice race for soloing),


True. I ran a solo Mage once who had to level in Scavenger to open chests. But I'd rather not run a solo character who couldn't be a Warrior, Ninja, or at least a Paladin.

QUOTE
joining Scavenger is actually a good idea, because it's the best way of getting at least some points in fighting and an additional swing or two.


If you're running an Osiri, you've probably got a thief. Nomads fight as well as Scavengers; Seekers fight better and have nifty spells and Perception. And of course Thieves thieve better. So in that case, the only thing you'd get from Scavenger is an extra swing (at 116, I think). That doesn't seem worth it to me when there are weapons that have 4 and 5 swings.

The core problem is that guild abilities aren't pooled together: the game only uses your ability from one guild (whichever is highest in that ability). So overlapping guild abilities are completely wasted.

This problem is compounded by the fact that guild ability rates have a non-linear effect. For instance, just a few dozen levels of Seeker give you a higher Perception than even hundreds of levels in any other guild.

It takes approximately 2 million XP for a level 100 human scavenger. For the same 2 million XP, you could have a level 75/75 warrior/thief, who is going to be a vastly superior fighter and thief.

QUOTE
And don't forget that Wizard is the only guild except Healer which teaches one of the most powerful combat spells in the game. So if you have a good or evil spellcaster, his only chance of getting this spell is to join Wizard.


Admittedly I've never run a very-high level solo character. But Sorcerers get 4 of the other most powerful spells, and Mages get the remaining 2. Wizards are sort of interesting because of their combination of Seeker and damage spells. But I'd still rather have a Seeker/Healer or a party with a Giant Seeker and other-race Healer.

QUOTE
Obviously you've never tried to level an Osiri Healer above level 200... rolleyes.gif I agree that racial XP modifiers don't make a huge difference in the early game, but eventually they will, especially since they're added to the guild XP modifiers.


No, but I do have a 509 Sorcerer/585 Thief Osiri. sneaky.gif Compared to a Dwarf, Osiri are only 11% slower to level, and compared to a Giant, Elf, or Gnome, only 3% slower. By that point, a Human might be dead from aging.

XP lost to guild redundancies is a much bigger factor than racial modifiers, which is why I'm stressing it so much.

QUOTE
Partial ID of items in your inventory also appears based on the character's guild level or perception (or possibly both), though.


True. I've updated my manifesto to reflect that. smile.gif

QUOTE
Once you have a high level thief (level 300 onwards), none of these traps is going to be a high risk, though. Unless perhaps the trapped chest is on level 15.


I think there's still a 5% chance of bungling a trap no matter how good your thief. Immediately after I got my first-ever Dagger of Swiftness, I lost it to a slime trap. I didn't find another for months. crybaby.gif

If your thief is that good, (s)he probably has almost all the best items in the game. Why risk losing one of them on junk? I will not risk losing one of my Blessings of Morash. If it's a really high-level (slime) chest with potentially good booty, I'll disrobe first. biggrin.gif

Any other slime chests, I don't touch.


--------------------
I would have started with lasers. Eight o'clock. Day one.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Serin
post Feb 1 2005, 03:33 PM
Post #4


Soldier
***

Group: Members
Posts: 268
Joined: 21-December 04
Member No.: 85
referrer:I love mordor, and looked it up on the net.



all this information was most useful! thanks you two! devil.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
A. J. Raffles
post Feb 1 2005, 08:51 PM
Post #5


Evil Being
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 3,326
Joined: 25-September 04
From: At university. Shhh, I ought to be working...
Member No.: 11
referrer:Braindead



QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 1 2005, 10:39 AM)
If you're running an Osiri, you've probably got a thief.  Nomads fight as well as Scavengers; Seekers fight better and have nifty spells and Perception.  And of course Thieves thieve better.  So in that case, the only thing you'd get from Scavenger is an extra swing (at 116, I think).  That doesn't seem worth it to me when there are weapons that have 4 and 5 swings.

True, but don't underestimate the power of an extra swing for a solo character; early on, it might make all the difference between living and ending up in the morgue. And level 116 isn't really all that much (the second swing from Scavenger probably isn't worth getting, though). And of course you don't get to those weapons with 4 and 5 swings until fairly late in the game.
QUOTE
If your thief is that good, (s)he probably has almost all the best items in the game.  Why risk losing one of them on junk?  I will not risk losing one of my Blessings of Morash.  If it's a really high-level (slime) chest with potentially good booty, I'll disrobe first.  biggrin.gif 

Any other slime chests, I don't touch.

Heh, I suppose you're more sensible than me in that respect. But I just can't bear the thought of leaving gold and other valuables lying around in the dungeon... Yes, I'm a Thief at heart. biggrin.gif


--------------------
The description-writers' mantra (as formulated by Beef):
No more imbuing unless it's really necessary...

http://www.reloaded.org/

"I am adorably stupid, and want everything explained to me - when the meaning is pleasant." - Gwendolen Harleth

No more finals-stress - what am I going to do with myself??
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zoriac
post Feb 1 2005, 10:24 PM
Post #6


Drifter
**

Group: Members
Posts: 42
Joined: 18-January 05
From: Kimberley, BC, Canada
Member No.: 99
referrer:Google, and other Mordor links



QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM)
High HP is a huge factor in survivability.  So the Optimal Leveling Route really is useful.  At the very least, try to get your Con as high as you can before level 30, so you get as many bonus HP as possible before you reach "ML", as described in the HelpLesson.

Yes, this does help a lot... I am currently a level 67 Warrior and have 489 Hit Points. I did delevel a little, but that is to be expected.

QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM)
Don't worry about racial XP modifiers.  The difference between the fastest levelers (Humans) and slowest (Trolls) is only 25%.  Take the race you want.  Dwarves are hard to beat for their versatility; Giants make devastating warriors. sneaky.gif  But other races are very playable too, as long as you balance your party well.

I would have to disagree with this... just getting to level 60, my brother spent nearly 3 times as long as I did. He was a Giant and I was Human... so there is definately a muhch larger difference than you say.

QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM)
The Seer doesn't know where a given monster is in the dungeon.  All he actually knows is where that monster type tends to spawn, on a room-by-room basis.  He is at least useful for telling you what level the monster first appears on, although sometimes a given monster will be more common lower in the dungeon, as a companion to a higher-level monster.

The seer is utterly useless. I've tried getting his help on multiple times, and he can't help what so ever, especially since I already know what floor they're supposed to be on.

QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM)
In order to minimize aging, heal your party fully before taking the stairs back into town.  Have your healer keep some SP in reserve in order to do this.

This could work quite well for a Party, but since I Solo, and have always Solo'd, it doesn't really work all that well, since I use all my SP just opening chests and casting resistances.

QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM)
Buffer Ethereal Portal at your peril.  sneaky.gif

Peril? What are you talking about? I use it all the time... it makes getting to the 4th, 5th, and 6th floor bosses that much faster.

QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM)
When lost, hold down shift+down arrow; this will move you back and forth in the same spot until you figure out where you are.  (Just make sure you're not near a pit or other hazard first.)  This trick is also useful when mapping; when in a Stud or Anti-magic room, you can move back and forth in each spot until your characters ID all the squares.  Again, watch out for pits.

Very very good tip. I use this one very often.


--------------------
Zoriac
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
aardless
post Feb 1 2005, 10:29 PM
Post #7


Goblin Shaman at work (used to be: on strike...)
**********

Group: Admin
Posts: 5,406
Joined: 27-September 04
From: Somewhere on level 3, staring at the light
Member No.: 18
referrer::yahoo:



Great post, Nudibranch! ohmy.gifk:

A few minor quibbles:

Keep your thief in the back of the party, and selected. That will further reduce the chances of item theft.

QUOTE
Never open slime traps. The chances of one containing something useful are low

Not anymore than any other chest. True most chests don't hold anything memorable, but if you don't open them you're never going to find out, right? huh.gif

QUOTE
(If you're already wearing it, you want it.)

Like that nifty Curse of Morash? sneaky.gif Sorry, couldn't resist... hypocrite.gif

QUOTE
A slime trap will only destroy items in the inventory of the character opening the trap

Are you sure? I'm starting to doubt my recollections, but I'm fairly sure a slime trap once destroyed items on two characters of my party. It may be a low level thief feature. unsure.gif

QUOTE
Likewise, a fear trap will only scare away the companions of the character opening the chest. So don't bother giving your thief companions.

Or give companions to your thief, but make sure to use an Orb of Life Domination on them. This way they'll never be scared.


QUOTE
Admittedly I've never run a very-high level solo character. But Sorcerers get 4 of the other most powerful spells, and Mages get the remaining 2. Wizards are sort of interesting because of their combination of Seeker and damage spells. But I'd still rather have a Seeker/Healer or a party with a Giant Seeker and other-race Healer.

I used to think along the same lines, but due to a couple of tight spots, I'm starting to think that having all of your party members able to cast WoD, even at a low level, can be the difference between victory and death. Let's face it, spells that deal damage of the 'magic' type are the least resisted. And while I like playing Sorcerers and Mages, the former have the most easily resisted spells (with the exception of the element ones, but these lack flexibility, since there's only one of each type), and the latter have the kill class; sure usefull against zbrats and piranhas, but not all that much else.


--------------------
If money doesn't grow on trees, why is it that banks have branches? - sig of a guy on a chinese forum

Most off-topic topics are off-topic - fart642000
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zoriac
post Feb 1 2005, 10:35 PM
Post #8


Drifter
**

Group: Members
Posts: 42
Joined: 18-January 05
From: Kimberley, BC, Canada
Member No.: 99
referrer:Google, and other Mordor links



QUOTE
And don't forget that Wizard is the only guild except Healer which teaches one of the most powerful combat spells in the game. So if you have a good or evil spellcaster, his only chance of getting this spell is to join Wizard.

And which spell is that? I already have all the spells, but I use nothing other than Resistances (btw, I solo, so it's hard to keep track of spells)


--------------------
Zoriac
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BLauritson
post Feb 1 2005, 10:39 PM
Post #9


Lord Fnorgle
**********

Group: Admin
Posts: 2,305
Joined: 25-September 04
From: Bristol, England
Member No.: 9
referrer:Let's see.. I can't remember now, it was too long ago.



Word of Death, I believe.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nudibranch
post Feb 2 2005, 01:58 AM
Post #10


Fire Master
*********

Group: Mordor MP Prog
Posts: 1,613
Joined: 19-November 04
Member No.: 71
referrer:search



QUOTE (Zoriac @ Feb 1 2005, 06:24 PM)
QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM)

Don't worry about racial XP modifiers.  The difference between the fastest levelers (Humans) and slowest (Trolls) is only 25%.  Take the race you want.  Dwarves are hard to beat for their versatility; Giants make devastating warriors. sneaky.gif  But other races are very playable too, as long as you balance your party well.


I would have to disagree with this... just getting to level 60, my brother spent nearly 3 times as long as I did. He was a Giant and I was Human... so there is definately a muhch larger difference than you say.


Presuming you're both leveling in the same guild (Warrior?), the costs are:
Level 60 Human Warrior: 81978 XP
Level 60 Giant Warrior: 97181 XP

If you're comparing via the "Play Time" statistic on your respective characters, that figure can sometimes be wildly wrong; also, time spent in town is counted, so maybe he had Mordor running a lot while not actually playing. And if you're measuring how long it took in real days/months/whatever, maybe you just play the game more actively than him.

If it's neither of those things, I'd guess that you were visiting deeper levels than him and thus gained XP faster. Was your A/D higher than his? Did you cast attack spells (via an item or a different guild?) Is he just timid? bleh.gif

QUOTE (Zoriac @ Feb 1 2005, 06:24 PM)
The seer is utterly useless. I've tried getting his help on multiple times, and he can't help what so ever, especially since I already know what floor they're supposed to be on.


As you visit deeper and deeper levels, it gets harder to keep track of what you saw where. The monster pictures get reused from level to level, which is confusing. Sometimes I've misremembered and searched on the wrong level for a long time.

But if it's a rare monster, you're probably screwed anyway. (This is where Mages shine, of course -- stock that Confinement whenever you can!)

QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM)
QUOTE (Zoriac @ Feb 1 2005, 06:24 PM)

In order to minimize aging, heal your party fully before taking the stairs back into town.  Have your healer keep some SP in reserve in order to do this.


This could work quite well for a Party, but since I Solo, and have always Solo'd, it doesn't really work all that well, since I use all my SP just opening chests and casting resistances.


It becomes more doable as your healing (and other) spells reach their minimum costs. And yes, it is more doable if you have a party with multiple spellcasters.

QUOTE (Zoriac @ Feb 1 2005, 06:24 PM)
QUOTE (Nudibranch @ Feb 1 2005, 12:03 AM)

Buffer Ethereal Portal at your peril.  sneaky.gif


Peril? What are you talking about? I use it all the time... it makes getting to the 4th, 5th, and 6th floor bosses that much faster.


There've been quite a few stories of people rocking themselves by accidentally triggering the buffer that held Ethereal Portal. Worst of all is buffering both Detect Rock and Ethereal Portal -- it's easy to confuse the two. ("Is this rock? *Crunch* Oh. Um. Yeah.")

=======

QUOTE (aardless @ Feb 1 2005, 06:29 PM)
Are you sure? I'm starting to doubt my recollections, but I'm fairly sure a slime trap once destroyed items on two characters of my party. It may be a low level thief  feature. unsure.gif


I'm pretty sure. Item-destroying monsters can hit anyone in the party, though. Bastards.

QUOTE (aardless @ Feb 1 2005, 06:29 PM)
Or give companions to your thief, but make sure to use an Orb of Life Domination on them. This way they'll never be scared.


Yeah. But they die so easily, anyway. Unless I'm running a Mage, I tend not to bother with companions. Solo Mages are fun for this reason (though they can't be Healers or Thieves ranting.gif).

QUOTE (aardless @ Feb 1 2005, 06:29 PM)
I used to think along the same lines, but due to a couple of tight spots, I'm starting to think that having all of your party members able to cast WoD, even at a low level, can be the difference between victory and death. Let's face it, spells that deal damage of the 'magic' type are the least resisted. And while I like playing Sorcerers and Mages, the former have the most easily resisted spells (with the exception of the element ones, but these lack flexibility, since there's only one of each type), and the latter have the kill class; sure usefull against zbrats and piranhas, but not all that much else.


A number of spellcasting items are very effective against the most-dangerous monsters in the dungeon. Either way, learn to buffer your "panic spell" (or item) and hit it as soon as you see the biggest brutes.

When I first encountered the endgame boss monsters, I developed a strategy of leaving the room immediately, healing back to full, then having everyone's default action be their most powerful spell or spellcasting item (make sure it's one that works against that particular monster/monster group).

Word of Death is very effective, yes. But Electric Field is also quite useful. And there are a couple of very tough monsters against whom I wish I could cast Precognitive Death (I've got no Mage, tho. sad.gif )

Hmm... checking the HelpLesson, I see that Wizards do get Precognitive Death. Okay! Okay! They're useful. smile.gif But only for characters that don't have Healer or Mage already -- otherwise, there's too much redundancy. (In retrospect, I might have made my Thief/Sorcerer a Thief/Wizard once he hit Sorcerer 80 or so and his Resistance spells were at minimum cost. Although high-level Leprosy, Acidic Spray, Paralyzing Death, and Electric Field were all useful. And Arctic Storm is occasionally good too.)

A note on the Element spells: in the early-to-midgame, there is no more powerful spell class. They do a lot of damage for very few spell points, and very few monsters resist them. They're imbalanced, in my view. They make Healers' lower-level Damage spells useless, and trump Sorcerers' Fire, Cold and Electrical spells.


--------------------
I would have started with lasers. Eight o'clock. Day one.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
spyfox
post Feb 2 2005, 05:35 AM
Post #11


Homebrew & old trucks
**

Group: Members
Posts: 44
Joined: 27-September 04
Member No.: 17



Ohh - nice open debate! This topic is refreshing to see. Additons would be:

Whether running a party or solo, create another character as a healer/sorcerer. I know one character can't do both - this is where the cross-over guilds can help. Then run them up quite a few levels and park them at the entrance to town. Let them join at the beginning to cast resistance spells and in the end to heal up characters. Pop this character in and out of town to reset SP as much as needed. Now you don't have to waste your main characters SP. Popping in and out of town just to refresh SP does not age a character.

Mordor 1 is different from M2 and Demise in regards to resistance spells. Once learned, each cast will give 95% resistance; period, no matter what the spell level. Earning guild levels only reduces the casting cost. Unlike Mordor 2 and Demise where in the begining the spell cost is high and the % is low and you have to build up.

You only need one Seeker. Once the dungeon is mapped - that is all. All other characters/parties will have the benefit of an explored dungeon and Seeker is not required. This leads to my next point (and dissenting view)

I believe you have dissed the Wizard too much. Granted they take oodles of experience to level compared to the other guilds (Healer being the exception), they get all the movement spells needed to teleport/etheral portal/levitate/etc. No Seeker required at this point. Plus the benefit of Word of Death. Just keep running the Slithers with WoD and it won't take long to pin. Although Healer also gets WoD, I prefer to save his SP for healing. My level 265 Wizard agrees with me.

If you want a sorcerer just for resistances and not sure how far to level, take him to level 83 - this will give you access to all his cubes and level 111 to get access to spheres as well.

Take Nomad to level 73 for the Mithril Dagger. Then park it and concentrate on two main guilds. As pointed out though, make sure one of the main guilds leads Nomad for the 2 HP instead of 1 HP.

To help with Etheral Portal/rocking problems, buffer it at the opposite end of the panic key so you don't accidentally hit it and DO NOT buffer it next to Detect Rock.

That is all I can think of at the moment. Great post. Nice to have you around.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
aardless
post Feb 2 2005, 11:03 AM
Post #12


Goblin Shaman at work (used to be: on strike...)
**********

Group: Admin
Posts: 5,406
Joined: 27-September 04
From: Somewhere on level 3, staring at the light
Member No.: 18
referrer::yahoo:



QUOTE (Zoriac @ Feb 1 2005, 11:24 PM)
Peril? What are you talking about? I use it all the time... it makes getting to the 4th, 5th, and 6th floor bosses that much faster.
*

Yeah, it is way useful. But sooner or later you'll grow bored of Mordor, and likely will get back to it after a few months. And when that happens you'll be a little lost as to what does buffer key #x, especially if you run a party (which you don't). Chances are you'll press the wrong key at the worst possible moment. Don't say you haven't been warned. sneaky.gif I find Spyfox suggestion on this issue to be very useful.

QUOTE (Nudibranch)
Yeah. But they die so easily, anyway. Unless I'm running a Mage, I tend not to bother with companions. Solo Mages are fun for this reason (though they can't be Healers or Thieves  ranting.gif ).

If your thief is also a healer, you can raise them if they die. Of course going to all the trouble of finding an OoLD and having your thief dual class to healer (thus giving up the fate trap trick), it should have to be some *really* interesting companion.

QUOTE (Nudibranch)
A number of spellcasting items are very effective against the most-dangerous monsters in the dungeon. Either way, learn to buffer your "panic spell" (or item) and hit it as soon as you see the biggest brutes.

When I first encountered the endgame boss monsters, I developed a strategy of leaving the room immediately, healing back to full, then having everyone's default action be their most powerful spell or spellcasting item (make sure it's one that works against that particular monster/monster group).


What do you think? That's exactly what I did. It still wasn't enough. Although I could have given a ring of death to my giant, but it felt a bit like cheating, so I refrained. It's perfectly ok to me if someone with a solo character uses this sort of items, but I think in a party they just unbalance the game.


--------------------
If money doesn't grow on trees, why is it that banks have branches? - sig of a guy on a chinese forum

Most off-topic topics are off-topic - fart642000
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nudibranch
post Feb 2 2005, 01:15 PM
Post #13


Fire Master
*********

Group: Mordor MP Prog
Posts: 1,613
Joined: 19-November 04
Member No.: 71
referrer:search



QUOTE (aardless @ Feb 2 2005, 07:03 AM)
What do you think? That's exactly what I did. It still wasn't enough. Although I could have given a ring of death to my giant, but it felt a bit like cheating, so I refrained. It's perfectly ok to me if someone with a solo character uses this sort of items, but I think in a party they just unbalance the game.


I had my Giant use a Helm of Brilliance, and it was just barely enough. Usually.

I would agree though that there's one item in particular that's really imbalancing, and that's the Ring of Entrapment. Its presence in the game totally negates the need for Mages. And I do use one. (An RoE, that is, not a Mage). I suppose you could look at all the other spellcasting items in the game as eliminating the need for all other types of spellcasters, as long as you've got the cash to recharge them.

Of course it all boils down to whether something's going to ruin your enjoyment of the game. Some of the tips I posted exploit loopholes in the game and clearly undercut how the game was intended to work. But there are still some things I don't do that other players feel is fine. For instance, I don't like using a healer/sorcerer by the door to town. And I don't use legacy characters even though the HelpLesson advises you to use them. dntknw.gif

At the other extreme, some people use the editors to make their characters ultra-powerful. They're entitled. Since Mordor isn't a competitive sport, it doesn't affect me. tongue.gif


--------------------
I would have started with lasers. Eight o'clock. Day one.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nudibranch
post Feb 24 2005, 08:30 AM
Post #14


Fire Master
*********

Group: Mordor MP Prog
Posts: 1,613
Joined: 19-November 04
Member No.: 71
referrer:search



QUOTE (spyfox @ Feb 2 2005, 01:35 AM)
You only need one Seeker. Once the dungeon is mapped - that is all.  All other characters/parties will have the benefit of an explored dungeon and Seeker is not required.


I've been rethinking the role of Seekers in Mordor a lot lately. My primary Seeker is a Giant (and thus a Warrior), so I tend to overlook the fact that Seeker is one of the fighter guilds, with high A/D, decent Fighting skills, and Warrior-type item use. Of particular interest is that it is the only fighting guild Osiri are allowed to join. In the future, if I run an Osiri, I will be sure to make Seeker one of their primary guilds.

Another notable quality of the Seeker guild is that it is the only guild besides Warrior (and Nomad) that Giants can join. If you do run a Giant, sooner or later you're bound to give it some Seeker levels.

After my party started visiting level 15 regularly, my Giant's Warrior level was getting far out ahead of my other characters' levels. So leveled him up in Seeker for a long time. This suddenly made it practical to Teleport the party straight up and down to level 15.

This was more convenient than I had expected. It can take less than a minute to walk down to 15 using the right chutes and teleporters, and at most two minutes to walk back up, but it gets pretty boring after doing it hundreds of times. Teleporting down, down, down, down, and up, up, up, up makes the trip effortless. (To make it faster still, I cut and paste "0,0,+3" and "0,0,-3" into the Teleport dialogue box.)

(When doing this, you've got to be careful not to teleport one time too many, of course, and Rock your party permanently on level 16. (Yes, I've done that -- once on the way down, and once on the way up. :laugh.gif: Backup often!) You can change the last casting to 0,0,+2, or just go down to 13 and walk from there. There are several interesting monsters I always seek out on 13 and 14 anyway -- spoiler time: )

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


QUOTE (spyfox @ Feb 2 2005, 01:35 AM)
I believe you have dissed the Wizard too much. 


I've conceded that point already. smile.gif

QUOTE (spyfox @ Feb 2 2005, 01:35 AM)
Although Healer also gets WoD, I prefer to save his SP for healing.  My level 265 Wizard agrees with me.


I used several techniques to make my healer's SP go the distance: the Fate trap trick, his Healer guild crest, Caduceus, plus occasional Tomes of Spells and Magical Dust. But now he and my Sorcerer are such high level they run out of things to kill before they run out of SP. devil.gif

QUOTE (spyfox @ Feb 2 2005, 01:35 AM)
If you want a sorcerer just for resistances and not sure how far to level, take him to level 83 - this will give you access to all his cubes and level 111 to get access to spheres as well.


You've got those reversed -- it's 83 for spheres, and 111 cubes. But do you actually use them? They're pretty rare and they can only be used by guilds that can already cast the spell. I never found much use for them.

QUOTE (spyfox @ Feb 2 2005, 01:35 AM)
Take Nomad to level 73 for the Mithril Dagger. Then park it and concentrate on two main guilds. As pointed out though, make sure one of the main guilds leads Nomad for the 2 HP instead of 1 HP.


I've been rethinking Nomads as well lately. You can "win" the game by sticking to Nomad and one other guild, preferably Healer. But since you have to keep one guild ahead of Nomad so you get 2 HP per level instead of 1, it actually takes a long time to hit 197 Nomad (where they top out in A/D). It takes less time if you make your lead guild a fighting guild (Warrior, Paladin, Ninja or Seeker) instead of a spellcasting guild -- but is it worthwhile to do both a fighting guild and Nomad at the same time?

Previously, I was an advocate of leveling in both Nomad and another fighting guild at the same time, but I did some tests, and I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't pay.

At the same level, Nomad gets about 20 more Defense and 25-50 more Attack than other fighting guilds. But if you were to pour the XP from training Nomad into your fighting guild instead, the result would be about even.

For instance, at level 197, Nomads have an A/D of 175/175, and Warriors an A/D of 145/157. It takes about 4 million XP to level Nomad to 197 and about 8 million XP to level Warrior to 197 (depending on which race you're playing). If you skipped Nomad and put 12 million XP into Warrior instead, you'd reach level 240 Warrior, with an A/D of 168/182 -- as good as the Nomad's A/D, plus far better fighting abilities, plus a higher guild level overall. And you can keep leveling Warrior up far beyond that point before their A/D maxes out.

For the other fighting guilds, the benefit is not quite as profound, but you're still better off skipping Nomad past level 30 and concentrating in just one fighting guild -- whichever is the best one your character can join.

But you do definitely want [/i]some[i] fighting guild for all of your characters, even if it's just Nomad. At level 197, Mages (the other spellcasting guilds are similar) get an A/D of 59/108, vs. Nomad's 175/175; thieves reach 108/131 at level 197. Leveling in a fighting guild gives you far more staying power in the dungeon.

QUOTE (spyfox @ Feb 2 2005, 01:35 AM)
That is all I can think of at the moment.  Great post. Nice to have you around.


Thanks! Just trying to put a little Mordor back into the Mordor board. (Mordorboard? *Hands out diplomas*)


--------------------
I would have started with lasers. Eight o'clock. Day one.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
grobblewobble
post Feb 24 2005, 10:20 AM
Post #15


Dungeon Master
******

Group: Mordor MP Prog
Posts: 890
Joined: 22-February 05
From: Netherlands
Member No.: 134
referrer:Slimey's site



Hi Nudibranch, nice post! You could make a good FAQ out of this.

QUOTE
I would agree though that there's one item in particular that's really imbalancing, and that's the Ring of Entrapment. Its presence in the game totally negates the need for Mages. And I do use one. (An RoE, that is, not a Mage). I suppose you could look at all the other spellcasting items in the game as eliminating the need for all other types of spellcasters, as long as you've got the cash to recharge them.

With items like Cap of Death, Helm of Brilliance and Lamurian Crown around (not to mention Ring of Entrapment and Ring of Death), I'd say David Allen must have hated spellcasters. I mean, first you penalize their guilds with huge experience requirements, and next you give the mindless warrior items to outperform them ON SPELLCASTING. And to top it off, you can't completely rely on magic anyway with a maximum of 250 mana. In a lot of RPG's spellcasters get enough mana to blast every single monster they see.

QUOTE
Don't worry about racial XP modifiers. The difference between the fastest levelers (Humans) and slowest (Trolls) is only 25%. Take the race you want. Dwarves are hard to beat for their versatility; Giants make devastating warriors. 

You are absolutely right on this. About giant warriors: did you know character size influences damage?
Remember that in the helpfile it says bigger characters take less damage? This holds for monsters as well. But because we're talking about relative size, this also means a bigger character hits harder! It turns out a Giant deals 20-50% more damage then a dwarf because of his size alone! (depending on the size of the monster).

QUOTE
Spellcasters can potentially gain XP faster than any other type of character.

No they don't. Giant warriors are the fastest levellers. Because they have such a good defense rating (so they can travel deep) and do so much damage, they will gain XP like nothing else. And they need only half the experience of a spellcaster.
One of my old parties consisted of 3 giant warriors and 1 healer/thief. The giants gained levels at a fearsome rate! The healer/thief had to take solo trips, doing nothing but casting leprosy, but it took him longer to pin then it took the giants to pin with the 3 of them!

QUOTE
Spellcasters can cast their spells even when leveling in a different guild, so it's useful to give every character a few dozen levels in a guild that can cast offensive spells, if at all possible, to give them a fast way to gain XP.

For some races, maybe. But once again, spellcasting guilds take oodles of XP and there are many good (too good) spellcasting items around.
It is your fighting guild level deciding how deep you can go.

QUOTE
When selling items, give partially-identified stuff to your smartest/highest level character. (S)he may be able to ID it better, fetching a higher price.

By the way your perception skill has no influence on this, only your int & guild level matter.

QUOTE
If you try to cast a high-level offensive spell (level 8 or higher) against a group of peaced monsters, the game will tell you it "takes too long to throw when peaced."
You can usually get around this by starting combat, then immediately casting the spell you intended to (via a buffer). If you start combat by pressing 'f'ight, the spell won't kick in until the next round. But if you cast a lower-level spell immediately followed by the higher level spell (both via buffers), the higher level spell will usually be cast before the monsters can respond. It also sometimes works to 'o'pen an (unlocked) chest immediately followed by a buffered high-level spell.

There is another (more sure-fire) way to get around this problem, if you run a party. First get out of the room. Buffer the spell and set it as default for the character. Then get back, select another character and press 'f'.
And don't forget to reset the default option afterwards, as I always do. dry.gif


--------------------
Fear the Society of the Psychic Tyco
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
A. J. Raffles
post Feb 24 2005, 10:38 AM
Post #16


Evil Being
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 3,326
Joined: 25-September 04
From: At university. Shhh, I ought to be working...
Member No.: 11
referrer:Braindead



QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Feb 24 2005, 10:20 AM)
Hi Nudibranch, nice post! You could make a good FAQ out of this.

Actually I think it's better this way, because for the most part, the thread doesn't really deal with specific questions but with general playing strategies. It might be a good idea to pin this thread, though.


--------------------
The description-writers' mantra (as formulated by Beef):
No more imbuing unless it's really necessary...

http://www.reloaded.org/

"I am adorably stupid, and want everything explained to me - when the meaning is pleasant." - Gwendolen Harleth

No more finals-stress - what am I going to do with myself??
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nudibranch
post Feb 24 2005, 12:23 PM
Post #17


Fire Master
*********

Group: Mordor MP Prog
Posts: 1,613
Joined: 19-November 04
Member No.: 71
referrer:search



QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Feb 24 2005, 06:20 AM)
Hi Nudibranch, nice post! You could make a good FAQ out of this.


Hi Grobble, thanks. smile.gif Whatever happened to the FAQ on Slimey's board? We ought to post it here, if anyone still has a copy of it.

QUOTE (grobblewobble @ Feb 24 2005, 06:20 AM)
QUOTE

Spellcasters can potentially gain XP faster than any other type of character.

No they don't. Giant warriors are the fastest levellers. Because they have such a good defense rating (so they can travel deep) and do so much damage, they will gain XP like nothing else. And they need only half the experience of a spellcaster.
One of my old parties consisted of 3 giant warriors and 1 healer/thief. The giants gained levels at a fearsome rate! The healer/thief had to take solo trips, doing nothing but casting leprosy, but it took him longer to pin then it took the giants to pin with the 3 of them!
*



You'll notice I said XP, not levels. cool.gif

Giant Warriors definitely gain XP fast, way too fast. dwarf.gif Spellcasting levels, as you pointed out, take twice as much XP, so they'll generally level/pin slower. But they'd level even slower without the use of magic. Basically, offensive spells are the other races' only hope for keeping up with Giants.

My thief, for instance, an Osiri Nomad/Thief/Sorcerer, is a crappy fighter. But he has more XP than my other party members. How? I run him up front, and let him blow away every large group he sees. With one spell, he can gain tens of thousands of XP. Not even 4 Giants could kill that much that quickly. My Healer, a Dwarf, can do the same. And aggressive use of spells against large and dangerous groups can contribute to survival as much as Defense does.

Offensive spells have their biggest impact at the beginning and the end of the game. Early on, the best XP monsters are tedious and/or dangerous to kill without spells (Slaves, Goblin Guards, etc.). At the end, the right spell is the difference between life and death, and when the most powerful spells start to get cheap, spellcasters gain XP faster than Giants.

'Course, you've probably won the game by then. But that doesn't mean you have to stop playing. happy.gif


--------------------
I would have started with lasers. Eight o'clock. Day one.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
grobblewobble
post Feb 24 2005, 02:58 PM
Post #18


Dungeon Master
******

Group: Mordor MP Prog
Posts: 890
Joined: 22-February 05
From: Netherlands
Member No.: 134
referrer:Slimey's site



QUOTE
At the end, the right spell is the difference between life and death

Hmm, I wonder. Giants have two excellent spells: Cap of Death and Eliminator. bleh.gif And Gloves of Light for the Demon Prince.
I wonder if you really need any other combat spells. Yes, recharging the cap is a bit expensive. But you make lots of money in the end and the recharge cost gets lower with every additional cap you find.


--------------------
Fear the Society of the Psychic Tyco
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BeefontheBone
post Jun 7 2005, 09:30 PM
Post #19


Head of Imbuing
**********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 2,222
Joined: 7-June 05
Member No.: 213
referrer:reefer: reference: preferrer



Being a bit of a newbie, my only contribution to this is about buffering Ethereal Portal - why bother? You're not going to use it over and over, and how much effort is it to press C-E-T-H-Enter, or just C-Enter if it was the last spell you cast?

What would be handy would be a buffer for multiple spells - casting 5 or 6 resistances every time you leave town is quite annoying, particularly if you have to type in Resist * each time.


--------------------
QUOTE (George Bernard Shaw (to TE Lawrence @ on the Seven Pillars of Wisdom))
"You practically do not use semicolons at all. This is a symptom of mental defectiveness, probably induced by camp life."

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
A. J. Raffles
post Jun 7 2005, 09:44 PM
Post #20


Evil Being
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 3,326
Joined: 25-September 04
From: At university. Shhh, I ought to be working...
Member No.: 11
referrer:Braindead



Heh, it never even occurred to me to cast spells with key commands. I always use the mouse.smile.gif


--------------------
The description-writers' mantra (as formulated by Beef):
No more imbuing unless it's really necessary...

http://www.reloaded.org/

"I am adorably stupid, and want everything explained to me - when the meaning is pleasant." - Gwendolen Harleth

No more finals-stress - what am I going to do with myself??
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 20th September 2019 - 07:11 AM
Bridged By IpbWiki: Integration Of Invision Power Board and MediaWiki © GlobalSoft
Copyrights and Credits