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> Should I play Mordor 1 or 2?
yttrium13
post Apr 8 2019, 01:26 PM
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Long-time lurker, first post. I was feeling nostalgic for this old dungeon crawler. Actually first I tried Demise, but there are various things about it that annoy me, so I decided to go back to the original. Got an XP VM set up with both Mordor 1 and 2 (.98, 15 floor patch installed).

I have gone around floor 1 a bit with an Ogre on both versions and am not sure which to go with. There are new features on Mordor 2 I like such as more monster sounds (gotta love the Rowdy), portraits, larger dungeon, and tavern quests. On the other hand, looking on the forum it does seem like Mordor 2 may be balanced in a way that makes an already difficult game a lot harder. Also, how stable are the lower floors of the 15-floor patch?

I have never beaten any version, or I admit never even gotten more than a few floors in, so would it be better to stick with the known quantity of M1?

This post has been edited by yttrium13: Apr 8 2019, 01:27 PM
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BLauritson
post Apr 8 2019, 06:42 PM
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I'll preface this by saying I've only played Mordor 1, so I don't know anything about Mordor 2.

Mordor 1 from my impressions both recently and from when this forum was more active many years ago does seem to have been the most popular version of Mordor, and certainly those of us who are still here have plenty of insights we can offer to help you along if you get stuck or need guidance.

On that basis alone I would happily recommend Mordor 1, but might be worth waiting to see what some others here say also given my open bias towards it smile.gif

I also recall seeing a thread from quite a few years ago where David Allen (the creator of the series) said that Mordor 1 was his favourite project as a developer, and that later versions ended up diverging away from what he wanted to do with the games.

If nothing else you certainly can't go wrong playing the first game anyway smile.gif


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Nudibranch
post Apr 11 2019, 07:06 PM
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Yeah, hard to go wrong with original Mordor.


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yttrium13
post Apr 11 2019, 09:17 PM
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Well, I settled on 1 after playing 2 a decent amount.

2 does some neat things, but some of the changes are very frustrating, like monsters blocking your retreat is just plain cruel and takes out the fun element of quickly peeking down a bit deeper than you can really handle. The stuff I read about multiguild XP penalties sounds pretty discouraging too. The double-size map is cool in theory but just gets kind of annoying in practice as the mechanics really weren't designed for it. "Exchange Items" has been removed from the main menu for some reason, so raising a dead character is much more annoying than it should be when you can't have another one take their gold and sell their items, and I found myself using an editor to get around it.

You can tell M2 was an unfinished version of a game that was rapidly changing. If I were already a seasoned vet of the first game it might make more sense to play, but I'm not, just played it on and off through the years.

So I went back to M1 and started a fresh file. My one current character:

Guillam - M N Ogre Nomad 15 / Scavenger 5

I know a lot of people like giants for the first character and I've done it before but I wanted to do an Ogre. I put his Con at a respectable (I think?) 17, 10 Wis/Int, and then the stats needed for Scavenger with 1 STR left over. The Ogre's high starting stats are pretty nice. Mostly he is a tome finder to grab items for the "real" characters and support them in the early stages. I switch over to Scavenger every few Nomad levels to get a little bit of backstabbing, fighting, and especially thieving support (being able to disarm more traps is some nice supplemental XP). Guillam will also help my future characters level and serve as the early thief until I build a real one.

I have most of floor 1 mapped and am starting to take real trips down to L2, though they aren't that long yet. I have had some good luck with early items, so he's pretty rich at the moment. He will be using the stat boosters to get Charm of Opening castable and maybe 1-2 more Str, but no more.

I am not planning to go the maximum legacy route - my goal is for future characters to start with the written max racial con (so not +5) without sacrificing too badly in other things.

This post has been edited by yttrium13: Apr 12 2019, 01:59 AM
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Roland
post Apr 12 2019, 08:58 PM
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I think the main advantage of a Giant for a first character is that Giants can be Seekers, which is useful for mapping. But being able to cast Charm of Opening will more than compensate if you are trying to build a hoard of stat items for future characters.
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Nudibranch
post Apr 12 2019, 11:32 PM
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I did a solo Nomad-only Ogre years ago for a challenge game. Got it down to level 12 before plateauing. Ogres do fine as dungeon explorers.


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Mordion
post Apr 14 2019, 05:12 PM
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I though the advantage of a throw away giant is that you can make a powerful smasher/rescuer. Give them high str and con, middling dex, and low int and wis. Put them straight into warrior with a 2h weapon. Then after surprisingly few levels you can start smashing stuff on level 2 and get your item farm going. And then when you start leveling your real characters you have a cheap rescuer to cover the first few dungeon levels.
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yttrium13
post Apr 19 2019, 11:03 PM
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Guillam is now Nomad 30/Scavenger 31. Charm of opening came online around level 24, then I got quested for an impossible Warhammer for level 26 and knocked back to 22 (especially annoying since Scavenger 26 is a threshold for a lot of low-level items...but I'd gotten so many easy quests my luck had to run out at some point). He's collecting a lot of loot now and can run level 2 pretty comfortably, though the attrition does add up so it isn't complete dominance. I've made brief excursions into 3, where he can fight the monsters if I play conservatively...and got my Wisdom drained by a Munsae, so I had to do an expensive evil potion buy/realignment to get Charm of Opening back.

I'm not going to start my next character quite yet but am starting to think about him/her. They will be good-aligned to help with division of the stat items. I'm leaning toward an Elf Seeker/Healer, how does that sound?

This post has been edited by yttrium13: Apr 19 2019, 11:08 PM
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Mordion
post Apr 20 2019, 02:14 AM
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QUOTE (yttrium13 @ Apr 19 2019, 07:03 PM) *
Guillam is now Nomad 30/Scavenger 31. Charm of opening came online around level 24, then I got quested for an impossible Warhammer for level 26 and knocked back to 22 (especially annoying since Scavenger 26 is a threshold for a lot of low-level items...but I'd gotten so many easy quests my luck had to run out at some point). He's collecting a lot of loot now and can run level 2 pretty comfortably, though the attrition does add up so it isn't complete dominance. I've made brief excursions into 3, where he can fight the monsters if I play conservatively...and got my Wisdom drained by a Munsae, so I had to do an expensive evil potion buy/realignment to get Charm of Opening back.

I'm not going to start my next character quite yet but am starting to think about him/her. They will be good-aligned to help with division of the stat items. I'm leaning toward an Elf Seeker/Healer, how does that sound?


You can find one...
It's a 10% drop from the Twisted Dwarves which are laired at 4,4 on level 1.
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BLauritson
post Apr 20 2019, 07:42 AM
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QUOTE (yttrium13 @ Apr 20 2019, 12:03 AM) *
I'm not going to start my next character quite yet but am starting to think about him/her. They will be good-aligned to help with division of the stat items. I'm leaning toward an Elf Seeker/Healer, how does that sound?


Elves have the highest limits for Int and Wis, so in that respect they are good spell casters because they have the highest mana pool.

Only thing to bear in mind is that Healer is a Neutral-only guild so you'd have to create a second character also if you wanted to achieve both objectives.

If you do want your next character to be Good aligned then Elf is still a good choice as they can join all of the magic guilds and if you can't join Healer then Wizard does get a lot of the Healer spells, albeit at a slightly higher cost than Healer.


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yttrium13
post Apr 20 2019, 04:27 PM
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Ah yes, I forgot class alignment restrictions. Maybe Elf Seeker/Sorc then, Healer can come a bit later. What is the general consensus on Wizard? I know it isn't considered a 100% "optimal" guild (levelling route aside) but is it still good?

I know about the warhammer drop but getting one early is a big roll of the dice in practice.

This post has been edited by yttrium13: Apr 20 2019, 04:35 PM
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Roland
post Apr 22 2019, 06:03 PM
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If you want a good Elf who can fight and cast healing spells, why not go with Paladin? If you also want him to be able to teleport, adding Wizard would cover that. (While most Wizard spells are expensive, movement spells have the same cost for Wizards as for Seekers.) The only Seeker ability you would be missing would be perception.

Do you plan to advance Guillam in a spellcasting guild? At some point, you will probably want a Sorcerer of at least 91st level to cast resistance spells.

Oops. I forgot that Guillam is an Ogre. Never mind.

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yttrium13
post May 8 2019, 02:11 AM
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Well, I've slowed down but still playing. Instead of item farming indefinitely, I decided to set Scav 40 as the target level at which I would create the second character.

Guillam - Male Neutral Ogre
Nomad 30/Scavenger 49, 242 HP

Idril - Female Good Elf
Nomad 30/Sorcerer 8, 242 HP

I've gotten pretty lucky with quests, mostly. Nice to finally be able to blast enemies! Though the resistance spells are kind of a distant goal with their high Charisma requirement. Money is a bit of a problem right now. Medium-length solo runs on floor 3 with Guillam help a lot especially with the Firagons, at least as long as I have resist stone potions of which I've accumulated a pretty good stock! (he has 75% natural drain res and I can live with the odd Munsae that gets through that). Scroll charming on 3F helps with cash too. I want to get Idril into Seeker soon so I have less worry about teleporters and chutes in 3 and deeper; still have lots of 3 unmapped for that reason.

Whatever weaknesses Ogres have for the long term, I'm pretty happy with Guillam so far. The Ogre base stats and natural resistances are nice when you're starting out, he got me early chest unlocking, and with the head start I think he'll remain useful as a fighter/thief for awhile. I may eventually give him some minor warrior levels for the critical hits.

I am planning to make a Dwarf Warrior/Healer in the medium-term future and later a Gnome Paladin/Mage. Further down the line, when Guillam is ready to retire, probably a dwarf Warrior/Thief or perhaps give the first dwarf Thief depending on what party size I ultimately want. I have possibilities for third guilds in the back of my mind too, but don't know how far I'll go there.

This post has been edited by yttrium13: May 8 2019, 01:59 PM
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