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> The All Caster Challenge
fischsemmel
post Oct 11 2019, 11:40 AM
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On a whim, inspired a bit by our discussions of reducing the number of guilds each character needs to level up in over in the general forum section, I decided I make an "all caster" party. It's not QUITE true because I decided it just really wasn't realistic to try to beat the game without a thief. So I do have a character that I'll level thief in, but the focus will be on each of the 4 party members leveling in each of the 4 caster guilds.


The thief, naturally, is an osiri. And since no race can join the wizard guild immediately, and this guy is going to be getting some thief levels also already anyway, I decided he would also be my wizard. As with my last party, this will be a pain, cause he will need by far the most experience of anyone in the party... but without cheating some stats in or starting legacy, this was the only way to keep to the "all caster" party as intact as possible (I think).

The healer is also an osiri, as the only race that can begin as a healer (how lame is it that the other healer races all can get just 1 stat point away from starting as a healer?). Plus they're awesome.

The sorcerer is... you guessed it... he's also osiri. I considered dwarf (more int and wis, same con, lower exp required), and gnome (so I could have a 2nd non-neutral character for ease of gear/tome/potion use, more int and wis), but I decided that the great osiri resistances couldn't be passed up, and the base stats contributing more to a/d doesn't hurt either. This guy is going to be in charge of all the resistance buffs for the party, so the more osiri I have, the better it will be on his spell point pool.

The mage is a gnome. He had to be good or evil, and I went good just because. Since I don't have secondary guilds to jump to when I get a nasty quest, I'm going to try to do a better job than I usually do of stocking my confinement with rarer monsters as I find them.


So yeah. I'm going to level the healer, sorcerer, and mage SOLELY in their casting guilds. They'll never even see nomad 2, let alone anything else. The wizardthief is starting in thief and will get into wizard when he is able, and then will focus on wizard, spending time in thief only as I feel necessary to cope with thieving monsters and traps on the dungeon floors I'm trying to work on. This isn't a hardcore challenge, and while I'll try to minimize deaths, I'll probably push my limits more than in my usual games in the interests of seeing how a bunch of glass cannons can work in the dungeon. The wizardthief will have by far the most hits and defense at any given point, thanks to slightly more hits from thief and getting bonus hits up to 41 when everyone else will be stopping in the late 20s. I'm going to try to take them all up to 11 before I stop leveling and wait to find enough con tomes to max them... which will be really, really painful. It was painful for my previous party, who branched out into 3 guilds each and took them all to 11 in the time it took me to max con on everyone. Yikes. I may break before I finish this task and take them up to 15 or 17 or something. Who knows. I don't like my chances of focusing solely on 1 guild each (well, almost) giving me enough levels to make up for the hits I'm going to lose from leveling the early levels as casters... but hey, what are you going to do? NOT play a party full of casters? NOT LIKELY!

Life as a spellcaster is supposed to be an exercise in patience right? laugh.gif
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fischsemmel
post Oct 11 2019, 02:07 PM
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First death already. My level 5 sorcerer, in the last slot in the party, got 1-shot by a margoyle (or 2) from 24 hits. He then proceeded to nearly die to margoyles like 3 more times before I have to take a break.

But things are going along ok. My thief is 11 and pinned, and now sitting in the back so the healer, sorc, and mage, in that order, can work on blasting their way through level 1 to level up. It looks like my guys are only going to be around 35-45 hits (holy cow... laugh.gif) at level 11 until I can find enough con tomes to start leveling them again. That might preclude me from setting foot on floor 2 at all until I'm finished collecting a billion con tomes.

On the plus side, I've finally sat down and figured out exactly how to ID tomes and potions without actually IDing them all. I'm selling 2 of one alignment, 1 of one alignment, and 0 of one alignment to the store, and noting the sell and ID costs so that I can use the good and neutral tomes without fully IDing them and just save the evil ones up, un-IDed for now, until I have enough of them and enough gold to fully ID and realign them in a bunch. So that's nice. I've started using tomes and still have like 8 million gold because of this so far.

It's gonna be a long slog on level 1 to find all these con tomes though sad.gif

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BLauritson
post Oct 11 2019, 08:01 PM
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That's cool you've decided to try out this idea! ok.gif

It is frustrating grinding for tomes, especially if you're looking to maximise Con right from the start on a fresh dungeon. I do look forward to reading how you get on with it though, I expect it will be fun despite the frustration of that early tome grind smile.gif


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Roland
post Oct 11 2019, 09:03 PM
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It sounds like an interesting experiment, but you're going to be fighting against the game at every step. The game strongly assumes that every character (except maybe Warriors) starts out with 30 levels of Nomad. Not doing so is like tying one hand behind your back.

With a whole party of spellcasters, you won't have much melee power (except the wizardthief, who will have a good backstab). So in order to kill things you'll have to rely mostly on spells. And if you don't want the wizardthief to grab all the experience, you'll have to get good at rapidly cycling through the party members and whipping out attack spells. If you don't keep the wizardthief selected, you'll lose a lot of gold to thieving monsters.
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fischsemmel
post Oct 11 2019, 10:48 PM
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This party is kind of a throwback. It's the sort of thing I would have tried way back in my early days if Mordor because I liked the idea behind a bunch of spellcasters blasting everything. Except back then I didn't know squat about the finer details of hits gain and sp cost reductions and stuff, and my parties and solos rarely did well on floor 3 of the shareware let alone a deeper floor (I didn't have full back then).

When I finish the closest to OLP that's possible for these guys, I'll be like 120-150 hits instead of 300+. And of course I'll have slow a/d gain (though theoretically defense can get decent even as a pure caster), and my melee will stink, but I think I will be able to make it work. Or at least it'll be interesting to see for a change how potent more casting can be since I'm so used to melee-focus even if I do have a decent amount of casting levels.

Everyone is pinned at 11 atm. Ive only found like 7-8 con tomes, and I need 16 to max my healer first! Clears of 1 have gotten painless now thst I fixed my poor stat choices at 1 for my mage and sorcerer (they didn't have 10 str so could hardly wear any gear) though, so that's good.
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fischsemmel
post Oct 12 2019, 05:01 PM
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After my healer got wrecked from his max of 40 hits by a few water dwellers on floor 1 (it wasn't even the stud room!), things went well this morning. I found a few neutral tomes of endurance which got me to the point that I was ready to combine and realign good and evil tomes I had. "Healer" (very creative naming scheme I have going on here, I know) maxed his con and got 9 more hits from 2 more levels (wowee! laugh.gif) just now.

He will stay up front of the party with auto fight as I start piling up the next round of con tomes, probably for "Sorcerer" to use. I wonder how many levels his little iron dagger will grind out on outcast goblins and slaves and stuff in that time. Well... at least I'll be able to start buffering the low-level nuke soon and still have enough SP to heal up at the stairs once he gets a couple more caster levels!
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fischsemmel
post Oct 14 2019, 12:00 PM
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Well Healer is up to 23 (hurrah for 1 spell point cause wounds!), and I still need 6-7 more con boosters before I can start leveling Sorcerer. I've been killing slavers usually between respawns of floor 1, which has been safe as far as I can tell now that Healer has more hits and I can buffer leprosy, summon shade, and acidic spray to wipe stuff out asap. Err, I guess Sorcerer did die once the first time I was heading to slavers in the slime room on the way; he got hit a lot, down to 2 hits, and poison+disease ticked before I could back out and get the heal buffer+selection done.

On the note of hits though, Healer's hits gain is somewhat disappointing so far. He's at 24 con, so I think it's 3-10 hits per level up through 28, but he's only gone up from 40 to 104 from 11-23. He has gained the minimum of 3 once, 4 a few times, and never more than 7 sad.gif Here's hoping for a few 9-10s before he his ML, I guess. Though I guess 15-20 hits lower due to bad luck is hardly the end of the world... I just figure I'll need all the help I can get when I'm getting defense from casting guilds and ending my early leveling route 100-200 hits lower than OLP characters would!

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Oct 14 2019, 12:02 PM
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MythrilZenith
post Oct 15 2019, 02:01 PM
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This sounds interesting. What a better opportunity to see which caster is *truly* superior than to level them all side-by-side?
Your dedication of grinding out tomes is impressive, especially without rolling any Nomad. I feel like raw Hits are going to be your biggest issue more than anything else with this start. Not that it'll be impossible, but when you start hitting instakill mobs you'll just have to hope they don't all hit the same person. At least you'll have Resurrection access! ok.gif


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I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

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fischsemmel
post Oct 15 2019, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Oct 15 2019, 10:01 AM) *
This sounds interesting. What a better opportunity to see which caster is *truly* superior than to level them all side-by-side?
Your dedication of grinding out tomes is impressive, especially without rolling any Nomad. I feel like raw Hits are going to be your biggest issue more than anything else with this start. Not that it'll be impossible, but when you start hitting instakill mobs you'll just have to hope they don't all hit the same person. At least you'll have Resurrection access! ok.gif


Yeah. I'd be more worried about the low hits if I cared too much about deaths. But I went into this just for the "challenge" of playing the party like this, not doing a hardcore run, so to hell with them!

Sorcerer maxed his con yesterday and has been gaining some levels too. I've been killing goblin shaman (I did goblin lord once or twice but the breaths are scary, they've hit Healer for 70+ before I kill everything, but luckily they've never aimed at Mage or WizardThief who are only at 52 hits), but only got one (evil) aard so far. Healer had to forfeit a quest already (though after bonus hits stopped being earned, unfortunately) because he got quested for a lodestone when I hadn't even stepped on level 3 yet and Sorcerer wasn't con max yet.

I think all 4 of the caster classes are decently balanced, with wizard being a bit weaker than the rest.

Healer of course has fantastic healing, WOD at CL 12, and a great crest, but their mid-level nukes are awful and there are a lot of opportunities for those spells to shine in the level 50-200 range before WoD is cheap enough you can use it more than a few times per trip and their buffs are probably too expensive to rely on.

Sorcerer has such an amazing range of nukes, from leprosy to acidic spray to electric field and paralyzing death, with situational stuff like arctic storm and draining touch and flesh to stone mixed in too, AND by far the best resistance plus decent other buffs, though their crest is quite lame in my opinion... fire damage, meh.

Mage gets some heals, some movement, good vision buffing, soul entrapment of course, great precog death and field of death, and the best crest imo, but is definitely a late bloomer with charm spells being tricky to use at lower levels and summon shade being their only reliable damage source for like 150+ levels.

Wizard... I just don't really like wizard. Maybe actually playing one thoroughly this time around will change my mind. I dislike Damage spells since they're kinda weak (except WOD but it is so expensive for wizards), I dislike kill spells in general, summon shade is pretty good. They get good movement spells. But their resist and other buffs are so expensive, they need more exp and have slower a/d progression than the others, their crest has good attributes but a crap spell. For any party except one where I force myself to bring a wizard, I feel like mage is a directly better class and that sorcerer and healer are different but also better overall.

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fischsemmel
post Oct 16 2019, 12:53 PM
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I nearly have enough con boosts for WizardThief to uncap. Not sure if he was the right choice for my 3rd guy or if I should have done Mage first so that he'd have the stats to cast levitate and let me start exploring 2-3 more while I collect tomes for the last guy... but oh well.

I don't have enough hours in the day for the amount of Mordor I apparently can enjoy though. laugh.gif. I mean... I play my all caster party for at least 2-3 hours most days currently (it's basically my only hobby at the moment, I tend to be a kinda "all or nothing" guy when it comes to what I do with my free time), but yesterday I even got distracted from that and ended up making another solo mage to see how I could handle floor 1 focused purely on the mage guild. It was kinda fun really, being ready at any moment to hit the right buffer for the right charm and constantly having 2-4 companions so that I hardly ever actually got hit and whatnot.

Then just now I had another party idea: all evil mages. laugh.gif. I guess mage loses a lot of the nuanced feel it has at low levels once you get the crest though, since you basically just mash the hell out of it instead of ever using any of the charm or dominate spells. But the idea of moving through the dungeon just cycling which mage I'm targetted on, only keeping companions on the one guy in the front that I'm actively controlling, having everyone able to resist thieving and handle traps... kinda sounded fun. It'd be a hoot going into 16 stud rooms with 16 companions, even if they would hit my own guys a lot! laugh.gif
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BLauritson
post Oct 16 2019, 05:05 PM
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A four mage party...now that would be an interesting idea biggrin.gif

Would they all be gnomes or would you mix up the races a bit? Any particular reason for them being evil as opposed to good?


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fischsemmel
post Oct 16 2019, 05:51 PM
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It'd be tempting to do one of each race mages can be. But I'd probably prefer 2 humans (both to gain 90ish whatever sorc levels without the gnome exp penalty) and 2 gnomes. I don't like morloch low con and cha, nor the low str and con of elves. Plus elves can't even be mages at level 1 non-legacy.

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fischsemmel
post Oct 17 2019, 08:21 PM
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Im not sure, but I feel like it's been a lot slower getting these 4 con maxed compared to my 4 in a normal party. I was hoping that being pure casters would mean my CL would get higher faster to let me move through a fair amount of the dungeon per trip blasting higher level spells than a "balanced" party can afford to use, but I'm not sure if getting to that point without having any melee to speak of to carry me through a lot of exp grind is going to take even longer than it'd take a normal party to get warrior/seeker levels AND catch back up with casters or not.

Still trying to keep working on finishing Mage's con up so I can see how the exp and dungeon crawling moves along once everyone is able to level up! I've gotten pretty fed up with hunting for con tomes/potions, so I'm mostly just parked in goblin shaman room with 2x leprosy and 2x dazzle buffered and entering the game once every 30-60 minutes looking for aards. laugh.gif. My mage is maxed besides a few more charisma and like 12 con.

I have done some stuff earlier with these guys than with the normal party though. I went down to goblin shaman with only 2 guys leveling up from my 11 con-work point. I also killed dwarven Lord a few times without issue after Sorcerer maxed con. Maybe dedicating all my exp to caster guilds will work out alright? We'll see! One slipup I had a bit ago was I leveled WizardThief above thief ML on accident (wizard isn't quite caught up yet). I didn't realize how low thief ML was! Oh well. Only a few hits lost.


edit - looking at seth's spreadsheet, my normal party with warriors around 320 and casters around 150 has a total about 28 million exp (20 of that in warrior). All of that straight into a caster guild will put it somewhere around 270-290. So yeah, I'll have lower a/d (like 60+ lower defense) and MUCH worse melee, but I'll be able to use better gear when I'm in the caster guild, so that's nice, and more importantly the difference between, for example, sorcerer 150 and sorcerer 280 is 25 mana electric fields hitting for 204-410 and 13 mana electric fields hitting for 369-739! WOW!! ok.gif ok.gif ok.gif

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fischsemmel
post Oct 18 2019, 01:59 PM
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Omfg. I'm in a terrible con tome/potion drought. I haven't found either in more than 24 hours, and I've only found 1 aard in that time (and it wasn't even the right alignment for Mage). I still need 13 more con for Mage before I can finally stop being EXTRA careful in the dungeon. My other 3 guys could handle floor 5 right now sad.gif

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if I'm just having bad luck. I used to fully clear 1 primarily while fighting around on 2-3 a little also, but now that my uncapped guys are in the 40s, I just check all the chests on 1 every once in a while and mainly clear 2-3 for more exp. And yet I've seen 2-3x as many of every other stat potion as I have con ones. I've seen about twice as many of every other tome than endurance (well, insight is pretty low too. It seems like insight and endurance are overall more rare on every game I play and agility are ridiculously common... I've seen 101 tome of agility but only 36 tome of endurance).

Grrrrr.
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BLauritson
post Oct 18 2019, 04:17 PM
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I've always found Agility to be the most common tome also, which is annoying when you're concentrating on a specific stat to be raised. Especially so when you're doing it for a whole new party like this one.

Just had a quick browse of the Wiki and I think the main problem is that while there's a wider selection of monsters that can specifically drop Endurance tomes, the few types that specifically drop Agility tomes are themselves a lot more commonly found in the dungeon.

Admittedly this is why I could never start fresh on the dungeon unless I somehow lost all my previous data. Only legacy characters for me.


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fischsemmel
post Oct 21 2019, 02:20 PM
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I was so fed up with looking for con boosts that I was only logging on like 3-4 times each day the last few days in the goblin shaman room then logging right back off.

But thankfully I finally found a few aards, then had the energy to scrounge up one more endurance tome on floor 1, and now my mage is starting to level up at last. He'll be up front swinging a silver cross (I think that's better for now than trying to cast kill spells since he's got such a low CL compared to the stuff I'll be fighting) for quite a while; he's got about 50k exp and my other guys are up near a million!

Now that his con is up, he can levitate my guys too, so I can finish exploring without worrying about all the pits wearing me down. 10-15 levels or so and I'll be able to do some more exploring on 4 and gauge how many hits I want to get Mage up to before I start visiting the twisted elf!
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fischsemmel
post Oct 21 2019, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Sep 10 2019, 04:56 PM) *
Well I wrapped up the optimal leveling route. And then I was super pumped because, go figure, warrior and thief levels in the 30s go by a lot quicker than 40 wizard. I had to call it good for the day with my highest warrior at 56, poised to supplant Garth within minutes next time I play! My other two warriors wont be far behind, and meanwhile my osirri is working on catching Nimblefingers.

With 320-370 hp or so, and 150-170ish defense, and leprosy and acid spray and summon shade to buffer up before walking into named monster rooms, I've been wrecking goblin shamans, dwarven lords, and most of level 5 for experience.

I've pushed down to 7 to cut straight out into the water area to see how that is for exp, but it's not too impressive with a whole party needing exp, so I'll keep on 5 for exp until I have a crew of guild masters then I'll be ready to venture a bit deeper I think.


I'm at about the same point in my party's growth with my caster party as I was in this quote with my normal party. My sorcerer and healer are not even 50 yet, wizard is 41 (and 26 thief), and mage is working his way up through the 20s right now. I have about 150-200 fewer hits than my normal party, but the nearly same defense numbers, and cheaper spells.

Melee with silver crosses (and sometimes a thief sword) actually works quite well so far when I'm smacking stuff on 4-5. It's not GREAT, but it works ok except against dangerous groups like higher-level slimes (acid spit hurts little mage up front with still only 136 hits) or spellcasters (I only cast stone and drain resist and have twisted bracers, plus paralysis resist on my thief so I can reduce the chance of getting paralyzed and stuck in a room I don't want to be in for an extra round).

I'll probably work on getting everyone up to 60-80ish before I start spending a lot of time on 7, sure to visit the demonist each time to find some crosses of commanding (and mystic shields for later). Big spells are prohibitively expensive for everyone at this point, costing up near 150+ SP, but leprosy and summon shade and acidic spray all work great for most everything I'll need to fight up until the demonist, so I'm moving along pretty well.

I'm not looking forward to doing resistance buffs on 2 humans, a gnome, and an osirri with just 1 sorcerer in the party. I guess I'll probably have to put more emphasis on getting 90 resist from gear than I usually do with parties in order to let my sorcerer do more than just buff everyone at the stairs! That'll work ok until the lowest levels I guess.

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fischsemmel
post Oct 24 2019, 01:50 AM
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Finally got the wizard and sorcerer crests, and just a few more levels until Healer and Mage get their crests too.

I've been slowly practicing playing WITHOUT always having WizardThief selected. I'll have someone else selected, and if there are thieves or a large group or more dangerous monsters in the room, I hit a nuke buffer that should handle them all. If there are just fodder monsters, I let melee run its course. It's been working ok. Fortunately 3 of my 4 guys have high dex as osiri so I don't get surprised very often doing this (yet), and thieves who are the primary reason I've never used this method of play before are usually pretty squishy so they aren't hard to nuke down. I figure getting used to this is the only way I'll ever manage to balance my spell point use in the dungeon, so I might as well try to get used to it now when its a quick trip back to down and the monsters I face aren't too dangerous if I mess something up. Setting buffers up to try to cast spells doesn't cut it because it's either really tedious and slow going to adjust buffers after you see what is in each room, or else you end up wasting lots of spell points casting against the wrong resistances. Moving between party members quickly before the first round seems nearly impossible for me. So yeah, this seems like my best option!

On that note, I DID run into a full 4 groups of zbrats on the way to the water on level 7 today. I've gone down there just a couple times looking to blow spell points on quick exp in the lake, and only run into zbrats once so far. I moved out of the room and nearly lost Mage up front (he's still under 200 hits and has lower defense than the others still too, between not being an osiri and not having as many guild levels). But I healed up and went back in with summon shade, leprosy, acidic spray, and another summon shade, and they got wiped out np.

I've also been starting to work on the confinement a little. Not much at all really, but like, if I run into stuff that seems like it gets quested a lot and can be annoying to find (wererat, wereboar, bushart, centaur, etc) I've been trying to grab them now that soul entrapment cost is under 100.


My current surprise with the party is how significant thief melee apparently is compared to caster melee. It feels, without having really paid too close of attention, that my thief hits at least 50% harder than the others, maybe even 100% harder, even without backstabs. Same weapons, same strength scores, but when I'm targetted on Healer or Sorcerer I regularly see them smacking stuff for single digits and almost never more than 20-25. Thief gets regular hits in the 25-35 range though, and basically never hits for under 15. It's still fairly pathetic, but oh well. It just needs to last me until acidic spray and summon shade are cheap and potent enough that those can carry me through my leveling on 7-9, and by that point I think the bigger nukes will be getting wielded a lot more frequently!

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Oct 24 2019, 02:40 AM
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fischsemmel
post Oct 24 2019, 05:38 PM
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I started to get (more) bored wandering around 4-5 earning experience for Mage up front while looking for air elementals and wereboars that I actually remembered to charm instead of kill, so I made a few trips down to 7. I fought down to 6, then would use leprosy and summon shade to clear the lake there, then still using leprosy, summon shade, acidic spray, etc., I moved down to 7 and cleared the lake there too.

Then I'd return to town to rest up and go back down to pay visits to the butcher and the demonist. I've only cleared their rooms 3 times each now, and I've yet to see a butcher, but this last trip did yield my first demonist, who coughed up a cross of commanding for Healer! Sorcerer and WizardThief are both using admantite daggers now, and Mage is just 5,091 xp from ditching his silver cross for an adamantite dagger too. So that'll be nice, able to actually hit stuff on 6-7 without only ever being able to use spells on them. And the significantly stronger melee from the cross of commanding instead of the silver cross is pretty handy too. I'm looking forward to finding more of those during my next session.

Spell costs are slowly coming down. Summon shade and acidic spray are around 12-14 spell points to use, and they work VERY well on the general I run into on 7. I can't last forever in the dungeon using one or two of those per monster group, but I do manage to mix melee in and my damaging crests, and I've even been using the mage crest for some charms even though I try not to too often because of how often monsters hit my party members. Once I have 90+ in all resists on all my guys, I'll be a lot more willing to charm any spellcaster I see though, since they'll barely touch my guys even when they do accidentally hit them.

Current stats:
56 Mage - 210 hits, 240 spells, 171 defense
70 Sorcerer - 247 hits, 220 spells, 184 defense
67 Healer - 215 hits, 220 spells, 190 defense
62/41 WizardTHief - 299 hits, 225 spells, 187 defense

Everyone has the same 1.8m exp except Mage who is still lagging behind at 1.1 from being the last person to max his con. He's always up front, but I think he isn't gaining a lot of ground since Healer and Sorcerer have better spells for using on 4-5 without running out of spell points too fast, and WizardThief hits twice as hard with melee and gets 500-1000+ exp per disarm. Maybe I should give Mage the cross of commanding; it'll only be a few levels until Healer can use an adamantite dagger.
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MythrilZenith
post Oct 29 2019, 04:04 PM
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Sounds like you're doing pretty well once you crested the CON hill ok.gif

On your earlier point about wizards:
Yeah, I've never really gotten the absolute love for damage/kill/mind spells either. I mean, sure, for floors 14 and 15 you have the strongest and least-commonly resisted spells in the game, but for everything else the spells are just... not good. Low raw damage, inconsistent damage (kill or do nothing for some of the better spells like Dazzle), limited group and number hit, and especially for Wizard they're just expensive! I think for early-game Dazzle and Cause Heavy Wounds are some of the best area-clear (being the only 3-cost minimum spells with a 4-group range), but they start becoming really inconsistent around floor 6-7, and the cure-all of Summon Shade just flat-out doesn't work against the slew of mind-immunes in the dungeon, particularly insects and several Elementals (which admittedly aren't *that* strong, but it gets annoying after awhile). Summon Shade also has the same base stats as Pillar of Fire, and everyone knows how often that fails to kill even against monsters who don't resist fire. dry.gif

Getting WoD and Precog both to high natural casting levels in a single guild is what makes Wizard so valuable to late-game parties, as they are the two best spells to have and use against the most dangerous monsters in the dungeon, but I've never seen a valid defense for Wizard over Sorc or Mage for the mid-game, outside of "Well you already have 41 levels from OLR." Meanwhile, Sorc gives all resistances, Mage gives charm, Healer gives, well, HEALING, and Wizard gets movement. A niche that is admittedly useful, but unless you're optimizing a particular dungeon route or trying to reunite the party, I generally find little use for displacement and teleport until the bottom third of the dungeon.

That of course isn't even considering that Wizard is one of only 3 guilds that no race can join with their base stats (the others being Paladin and Villain), so including that you have a bit of a recipe for... Well, for people not really choosing to level Wizard as a primary guild.

Anyway, sorry I haven't been commenting here a lot. I kind of half-forget that the Challenges forum exists blink.gif

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Oct 29 2019, 04:05 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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