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> Recording a Mordor run - solo good elf!
fischsemmel
post Oct 14 2019, 06:17 PM
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That's a lot of paladin levels! Quite impressive.

Are you just leveling paladin more because you get to wear better gear in the paladin guild?

15 can be rough for sure. My solo osiri had about 100 more defense than you did and still would get killed by gargantuans, destroyer of the deep, etc., if I was unlucky or slow on the draw.

Do you use companions a lot? They felt like the only thing keeping my good human doing well down there or else k got hit way too much by random stuff like assassin's and guardsmen and I would get worn down even when not facing truly dangerous enemies.

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MythrilZenith
post Oct 14 2019, 10:40 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Oct 14 2019, 12:17 PM) *
That's a lot of paladin levels! Quite impressive.

Are you just leveling paladin more because you get to wear better gear in the paladin guild?

15 can be rough for sure. My solo osiri had about 100 more defense than you did and still would get killed by gargantuans, destroyer of the deep, etc., if I was unlucky or slow on the draw.

Do you use companions a lot? They felt like the only thing keeping my good human doing well down there or else k got hit way too much by random stuff like assassin's and guardsmen and I would get worn down even when not facing truly dangerous enemies.


Primarily I'm leveling because I get my second bonus swing from Paladin at 498. After that it really just becomes "I have better A/D gear on Paladin than on Sorcerer," plus the Lightning Blade is just *such* a useful tool to have on hand. If I find Mage Armor, though, I'm definitely switching over to Sorc as my primary, as the Staff of Destruction is a better weapon than the lightning blade (though I still need about 20 sorc levels before I can use it).

I need to get used to grabbing and using companions more regularly. I think I've stopped on that because I have the power to kill most groups with a single EF (and I'm constantly worrying about them either dying to an enemy wizard, dragon or lava giant or just leaving me for no good reason), but some decent companions *might* make my life a bit easier. I never feel like they actually survive long enough to make that big of a difference, though anything to keep off a random 350-damage Gargantuan hit or a drain from a Vampire before I can even react would be nice.

I've started a dedicated search for the final boss. I think this is what Mordor Monday is going to transition into. It takes me a good 2 runs to be able to hit every stud room on 15, and that adds up to around 30 minutes once I factor in the lag caused by recording and the like. I also want to catch my initial reactions to actually seeing Asmo or the Demon Prince on-camera - and the inevitable death that is likely to follow.
Video at https://youtu.be/QeOhUboExto


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Oct 14 2019, 10:58 PM
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Haha, sounds fun.

I used companions as expendable meat shields. I'd charm stuff like spectral dragons or lamurian guards when I could hit a stack of 3-4 to end a battle, then would just carry them around until they were all dead and repeat. Even lamurian soldiers can take quite a few hits to help reduce your damage taken or avoid certain death if you mess up a gargantuan fight. And guards/soldiers are always easy to find on 14 before you step down onto 15.

They actually contribute a lot of damage if you get breathers or electrocuters (or casters, but they die fast). They eat exp but help you clear more rooms per trip and are a net gain imo. I'd never try to keep them alive unless I was about to return to town and had spare sp to try to carry them through to the next trip.

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Oct 14 2019, 11:00 PM
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Roland
post Oct 15 2019, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Oct 14 2019, 06:58 PM) *
I'd never try to keep them alive unless I was about to return to town and had spare sp to try to carry them through to the next trip.

With my high-level party, my Gnome usually keeps Lamurian Guards and Golden Eagles as companions. They have enough hits and defense that it's not too much trouble to keep them alive (as long as I don't encounter Magi Lord). But I keep them at the back of the party, where they don't get targeted as often. The Gnome's spell points are dedicated almost entirely to healing and rebinding his companions, which is not a problem since I have a Healer with enough spell points to cover the whole party's healing needs.

With my solo Morloch, however, I find that it's a lot harder to keep companions alive. My experiment with a Guardian, which has the highest defense of any charmable monster in the game, was not satisfactory. He ate up a lot of healing spells. As I run deeper I'll probably try using disposable companions.

This post has been edited by Roland: Oct 15 2019, 07:38 PM
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MythrilZenith
post Oct 17 2019, 03:41 AM
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Yeah, companions are definitely expendables for a solo character. Though admittedly helpful ones!

Had time to do another trek through the stud rooms of 15. Here are the results: https://youtu.be/6LiO6QIeuOw

- Met my first Mind Flayer. Do these things do anything outside of spam Precog? I feel like the ideal companions to take them down are, funnily enough, insects because of Mind immunity. Took a lot of charm spells to eventually throw enough at the thing for it to die, and my only reward was Gloves of Power. dry.gif

- Flame Devils hurt. A lot. I walk in, they always get initiative and hit for a few hundred, so fast that I can't even read what they have. I assume it's the most powerful fire breath weapon in the game as well, though it also could just be them all critting me at the same time. Whatever the case may be, I'm lucky if my Lightning Blade kills them all in a single round, but the debate that goes on in your head in the half a second you have to react is as follows - if you run, you will get hit by them all again. If you fight, you *might* kill them all, but if you don't you're getting hit. And if you DO fight, you need to be fast enough to hit the right buffer, or you're essentially wasting an entire combat round.

- The only other things I feel actively threatened by are Gargantuans, Golden Eagles and Great Whites. Everything else will hurt if it hits, but my defense is high enough that they aren't likely to hit every time, and even if they do it's not like it's going to be 3-4 groups all hitting for several hundred points of damage. At this point I've basically stopped attacking most neutral monsters unless I feel like they will die quickly or if they have a chest, because I just don't want to waste my resources for the fights that really matter. Plus my 27 Charisma is enough to keep most neutral mobs neutral for as long as necessary. I've DEFINITELY felt the pain of losing even 1 point of Charisma, though, as that seems to make every neutral mob turn on me within a few seconds.

Another thing I've been wondering - does having multiple monsters in a single group increase that group's odds to hit? I figure that the game keeps track of that somehow, since you get the whole "X monsters hit for Y" or the like, but does it affect their accuracy or just the damage they can potentially deal? Groups of monsters seem to be handled in an interesting way.


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Oct 17 2019, 03:43 PM
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I think that...

Up to 5 monsters per group will make attacks on you each round, but no more than that. If a monster in a group casts a spell, that's all that happens from that group; you don't get hit with multiple spells or with a spell and melee from the same group. I'm not sure how whether a breath weapon or electrocute happens (you still only get one of these per group max) is increased by having more monsters in the group so that like, if one makes a melee attack but doesnt trigger breath/electrocute/whatever, the other melee attacks coming in CAN still trigger those.

The formulas section of the spoilers on the wiki has info about combat order and stuff if you want to check that out.

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Oct 17 2019, 03:44 PM
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MythrilZenith
post Oct 17 2019, 04:21 PM
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Well, looking at the formulas didn't help with my question about groups, but it *did* help clarify some of the following:

- I should theoretically have a 50/50 chance of having initiative priority against Flame Devils, because of a Dex tie.
- The to-hit formula seems to tell me that even though, for instance Gargantuans have 600 attack to my 499 defense, they still only have a 58.4167% chance to hit. A ghoul, by comparison, should have a roughly 23.046% chance to hit, and a slave hits minimum.
***Though by an odd effect, the negative value of the Slave's attack means that it is actually BETTER to have a lower defense against it. It will never reach more than minimum hit chance by nature of the game bottoming-out at 2%, but it's funny how the game creates a sort of inverse-effectiveness of armor against the weakest monster in the game.
- Breath weapons, acid spits, etc. *are* indeed doing less damage because of my higher raw level. ok.gif
- I'm saddened that I don't have Wabbit's Editor to actually glean hidden monster stats from the game, since a lot of formulas are useless without those values.
- Paralyze chance is based on a flat 100, not scaled to monsters, and the calculation adds resistance to constitution with minimum 5% chance, so casting paralyze resistance over my own item-based resistance is completely redundant (unless my Constitution is somehow below 5).
- The formulas for drain, stoning, poison and disease are unclear with whether the "check against resistance" is really a 100-res chance or if it is based on the monster strength.

If what you say is true, and up to 5 monsters per group attack, then that seems like a pretty fair way of explaining why groups of monsters hit more - they are literally just rolling multiple attacks that just so happen to be added up in the same "hit" because each group randomly targets one player and/or their companions.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Oct 17 2019, 04:35 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Oct 17 2019, 05:08 PM
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I think initiative is per monster though. I have no proof but it feels right to me. I basically never walk in on 4 groups of hostiles and get swung at by all of them. But it's also rare to walk in on large groups even if they have low dex and none of them have a surprise round on you.

If I'm right then it's very unlikely you'll be able to walk in on flame devils without getting breathed on at least once.
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Roland
post Oct 17 2019, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (MythrilZenith @ Oct 16 2019, 11:41 PM) *
- Flame Devils hurt. A lot. I walk in, they always get initiative and hit for a few hundred, so fast that I can't even read what they have. I assume it's the most powerful fire breath weapon in the game as well, though it also could just be them all critting me at the same time. Whatever the case may be, I'm lucky if my Lightning Blade kills them all in a single round, but the debate that goes on in your head in the half a second you have to react is as follows - if you run, you will get hit by them all again. If you fight, you *might* kill them all, but if you don't you're getting hit. And if you DO fight, you need to be fast enough to hit the right buffer, or you're essentially wasting an entire combat round.

Flame Devils have 50% electrical resistance, so the Lightning Blade is unlikely to kill them all. They have no resistance to cold or paralysis. As for special attacks, they can breathe fire.
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MythrilZenith
post Oct 25 2019, 02:53 PM
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Lightning Blade might not be the most consistent option, but it's still one of the best I have. ParDeath is still too low regular damage for me to believe in it (though it does a good job of taking out guardsmen), and Arctic Storm isn't on my regular buffers since it's so expensive for what it actually can do.

I haven't been able to play too much Mordor recently, though I did take my Paladin level up to around 475. I'm starting to run out of sashes, to be honest - I have plenty of Static ones in my bank, but I just used up the last of my Magenta. As for other items, I've found some duplicates of stuff I already have - Gauntlets of Slaying, Belt of Giant Strength, etc - but the only exciting find I've had is a Cap of Death. It's not much, but 5 charges of WoD at 190 should be a solid panic-button, though the Mithril Helm is so much better of a base item (plus I *really* don't want the cap to get slimed) that I'm leaving it in my bank, and only going to run and grab it when I find something that necessitates its use diablo.gif

I kind of want to find more Lightning Blades, if only to reduce the cost of recharging it. As it is now, it costs about 80M to recharge, after I factor in the sale value of 100M, so I'm trying not to burn through it too quickly. I've only had to recharge twice, and I *do* have over 3.5 Billion in the bank, but if I'm not too careful that could start draining pretty quickly.

In other news, I've found that Genies are probably the best minions to find to kill Mind Twisters. They're relatively easy to find, don't need to be weakened to be charmed, and are completely mind immune, plus monster spells bypass the Magic Immune tag. It only takes a handful of rounds for a genie or two to down a Mind Twister, and their WoD isn't bad against other monsters, either. Because of its low level, though, they aren't the most consistent, dealing around 80 to whatever monsters they choose to WoD, and not much in melee, so I need to take good care of them or they're liable to die against any strong encounter - especially vs enemy mages or breath weapons.

Casting drain resistance seems like it's helping - I've only got drained once in the last 10 or so levels as opposed to the regular affair it used to be. If I didn't know better from looking at the calculations I'd have started casting Paralysis Resistance as well, but since it's literally no different from having it from an item so long as my Con is at least 5+ then I'm saving my SP for more important things - like spamming EF yahoo.gif


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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MythrilZenith
post Nov 5 2019, 05:11 PM
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Life has gotten completely away from me. It's been almost a month since I've been able to record a new video (yet somehow I gain more subs when I do nothing than when I actively upload think.gif )

I have managed to poke around Mordor here and there. I brought my paladin level up to 485 - I know that 484 is the target level, but I kind of forgot and thought it was 498 or something so I would have kept leveling if it wasn't for me actually noticing I was swinging at 6 Orps instead of 5 every round blink.gif

I'm going back to Sorcerer leveling for now, and might stay there until 509 (max spell level). Honestly there's not too much more I can get from Paladin except for a minute increase in crit chance, and I'm not that interested in going all the way back to catch up my Mage or *shudder* Wizard. Mage is 175, Wizard is still below 100. And I have a Cap of Death, so it would be a HUGE dip for not much benefit to go back and grind either one out. Maybe in the future, if I want to make Gil'Thrialle the ultimate spellcaster, that could be her endgame goal.

I'm sitting up at age 80 right now, though. Been taking occasional deaths and aging attacks on floor 15, and while the draining has slowed since I started casting for the extra 5%, it still hits me. For some reason Wisdom is the stat of choice to be drained this week - I lost 1 Wisdom point three trips in a row O_o - luckily I haven't run out of Tomes of Insight, though I might have to start re-aligning them soon blink.gif

I'm around 320 Sorc now, and I can't WAIT for 333. Staff of Destruction is going to be SOOOOOOO nice - the vamp fang is just not doing it for me anymore. It occasionally fails to 1-shot Kyu-Hotas! That said, another part of the problem could be that I have only 27 str with my Sorcerer equipment, compared to 31 with my Paladin. I could probably increase that to 28 by changing out my Gloves of Doom for Gloves of Power, but eh :shrug: I like the extra defense they provide - especially when I'm dealing with 466 Def compared to the 499 I was getting used to as a Paladin.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Nov 5 2019, 05:12 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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Roland
post Nov 5 2019, 09:13 PM
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Congrats on Paladin 485! Advancing further in Paladin would also increase your regular damage, not just your crit damage. I don't think either one tops out. But I agree you have higher priorities now that you got your second extra swing.

When you return to the Sorcerer Guild, your defense will take a bigger dip than you might expect. Protection is based on your level in your current guild. So, be careful until you get the defense boost from Staff of Destruction.

If you are going to remain in Sorcerer for a long time, you might want to consider equipping Dalyn's Last Laugh, which gives +1 to all stats. Among other things, it would boost your strength to 28, which would bump you to the next damage level.
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MythrilZenith
post Nov 7 2019, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE (Roland @ Nov 5 2019, 02:13 PM) *
Congrats on Paladin 485! Advancing further in Paladin would also increase your regular damage, not just your crit damage. I don't think either one tops out. But I agree you have higher priorities now that you got your second extra swing.

When you return to the Sorcerer Guild, your defense will take a bigger dip than you might expect. Protection is based on your level in your current guild. So, be careful until you get the defense boost from Staff of Destruction.

If you are going to remain in Sorcerer for a long time, you might want to consider equipping Dalyn's Last Laugh, which gives +1 to all stats. Among other things, it would boost your strength to 28, which would bump you to the next damage level.



Interesting use of the item. If I find another one I might consider it (though losing Dalyn's Tear is painful). Like I said, I'm also considering switching my gloves back to Gloves of Power to hit that 28 breakpoint, though I don't want to lose those 12+ defense points because SERIOUSLY I'm getting shredded over losing 30 points of visible defense and 160 guild levels of Protection defense. Plus not having the free 12 casts of Minor Heal every trip is like 600 hp I don't have anymore.

I'll give Mordor this - it somehow found a way to make me feel more like a spellcaster when I'm leveling in a spellcasting guild even with almost 500 paladin levels under my belt - lower base damage and not as much free healing means I'm relying on my spells a lot more to kill stuff, both to make up for lost damage as well as to kill faster so I don't get hit as much.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Nov 7 2019, 05:12 PM


--------------------
Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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MythrilZenith
post Nov 9 2019, 11:04 PM
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After too long, here's finally a new video! https://youtu.be/kHS9yvLjPmQ

Really not much to say after my last update. Apparently the A/D I was thinking of before was when I had gloves of power instead of gloves of doom, because my actual visible defense is 478.
Sorc leveling isn't slow going per-se, but I'm just not able to make it very deep. Everything hits so hard and I don't have the melee power to actually fight anything. Also, while Pillar of Fire is... alright? I find myself really missing the 12 free casts of Minor Heal. I can barely find a way to make it down to floor 14, let alone 15, and with how fast my dungeon respawns I'm basically starting at square one every time I do a full run. Everything except for floor 12 and below respawns in the time it takes me to do one full run, which isn't too bad except it's pretty annoying, especially trying to fight back through floor 10 enemies all the time. Part of me wants to just run past everything and forget about it, but when I'm recording that's just not an option, because the extra processing delay means everything is hitting me twice before I can get through its room.


--------------------
Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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MythrilZenith
post Nov 25 2019, 12:31 AM
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Made it to 333 Sorc and now am using a Staff of Destruction. Visible A/D for my current set is 398/502, which isn't bad. I'm still finding myself low-rolling my damage in the 30-40 range more often than I would like, so even the 2.0 modifier isn't really doing much for me. I'm seriously debating switching back to Gloves of Power for the 28 str, to see if that makes a noticeable difference.

Not much else to be said, though. Progress has been slow, I've been super busy and haven't had much time to come back to Mordor in awhile, and when I do I only really go for a handful of runs before I walk away to do something else / fall asleep. I have barely been back to 15 since switching back to Sorc, and the rate at which the rest of the dungeon is chewing me up makes me not really want to risk delving those depths until... Well, honestly at this point I don't really have a target level. I need to go back to 15 to get any equipment upgrades, but at the same time I feel like I need more equipment upgrades to make it through 15, especially when all the floors above respawn SO FREAKING QUICKLY that by the time I'm coming back from a run down at 14, floor 10 has already respawned. not_ok.gif


--------------------
Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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