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crowbar_of_irony
post May 27 2020, 04:54 AM
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I first got this game when I bought a book on computer games development written by David Allen (it should be that book on network games development but I can't recall the title).

So now that I can grok the complexity better, I realise that this game is actually long grind. Most of the classes are out of reach. So I suppose the strategy is:

1. Create a pure melee powerhouse and level it to a Warrior
2. Get a nomad to level 23 ASAP to get Charm of Opening.
3. Get as many tomes as possible on the first level (do they still drop on the second onwards?) with those duo
4. Get lots of gold and lots of tomes that allow me to get to my desired stats
5. Build my actual party.
6. Meanwhile the seeker + warrior duo will go ahead and scout the lower depths till they die permanently or some such.

Is this the right way to go about playing the game?
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BLauritson
post May 27 2020, 07:00 AM
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It's certainly a viable way to get started; the only downside is that Charm of Opening when first acquired at Nomad has a ridiculously high casting cost so it may be a few levels after before you can start casting it, depending on the character's spell point totals.

Otherwise though I'd say that's a sensible plan. Tomes do indeed drop on later levels but level 1 is the most common and safest place to find them.


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fischsemmel
post May 27 2020, 12:14 PM
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What you're describing is the creation of a "legacy party." I think the usual way to get one going is to make a party of a few giants and one thief so you can safely explore the first floor or two while collecting tomes, gear, and gold to pass on to your actual party. 2 giant warriors, a giant seeker, and an osiri thief will beat the snot out of everything you run into with huge melee, the seeker will help you map out all the secret doors and traps and stuff, the thief will only need a few tomes/potions to get the stats to cast charm of opening and will be able to cast it a dozen times per trip by then. All those race/class combos can start at level 1 and just go right into warrior/seeker/thief for convenience sake.

Your actual party is probably at least 8-10 hours away doing this. Maybe more. It looks like the last normal party I played took almost 20 hours to max everyone's con - http://dejenol.com/forum/index.php?s=&...ost&p=53067 ... and I'm not sure a group of giants would be too much quicker than that.

Personally I dont use legacy parties. My thing is to use a clean install of Mordor for every new character or party I want to try. Exploring the dungeon, fighting to find your own loots, trying to figure out the best way to level up early with just the base available stay points? I love that. You grind for tomes one way or the other, after all! There are fairly significant perks to totally optimizing your characters through the first 30-40 levels of the game, especially for a newer player who doesn't know what to watch out for as the worst dangers on the lower levels, but if you need the general tips and tricks and party makeup and stuff I don't think legacy (or the "optimum leveling path") are at all necessary to enjoy the game fully.


What sort of party are you envisioning for your actual party? Mordor is a great game, definitely a grind but with enough variety of race, class, dungeon level, monsters, etc to keep it interesting imo, but there are definitely some tips for early on that make your life easier depending on what races and classes tickle your fancy!

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: May 27 2020, 12:34 PM
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crowbar_of_irony
post May 27 2020, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ May 27 2020, 08:14 PM) *
What you're describing is the creation of a "legacy party." I think the usual way to get one going is to make a party of a few giants and one thief so you can safely explore the first floor or two while collecting tomes, gear, and gold to pass on to your actual party. 2 giant warriors, a giant seeker, and an osiri thief will beat the snot out of everything you run into with huge melee, the seeker will help you map out all the secret doors and traps and stuff, the thief will only need a few tomes/potions to get the stats to cast charm of opening and will be able to cast it a dozen times per trip by then. All those race/class combos can start at level 1 and just go right into warrior/seeker/thief for convenience sake.

Your actual party is probably at least 8-10 hours away doing this. Maybe more. It looks like the last normal party I played took almost 20 hours to max everyone's con - http://dejenol.com/forum/index.php?s=&...ost&p=53067 ... and I'm not sure a group of giants would be too much quicker than that.

Personally I dont use legacy parties. My thing is to use a clean install of Mordor for every new character or party I want to try. Exploring the dungeon, fighting to find your own loots, trying to figure out the best way to level up early with just the base available stay points? I love that. You grind for tomes one way or the other, after all! There are fairly significant perks to totally optimizing your characters through the first 30-40 levels of the game, especially for a newer player who doesn't know what to watch out for as the worst dangers on the lower levels, but if you need the general tips and tricks and party makeup and stuff I don't think legacy (or the "optimum leveling path") are at all necessary to enjoy the game fully.


What sort of party are you envisioning for your actual party? Mordor is a great game, definitely a grind but with enough variety of race, class, dungeon level, monsters, etc to keep it interesting imo, but there are definitely some tips for early on that make your life easier depending on what races and classes tickle your fancy!


I am not sure if I am getting something wrong, but there is no way to hit the stat requirements for mage, wizard, healer, thief or seeker with a new character right of the bat? I thought having legacy characters is the only way to play the game. For instance, there's a minimal requirement for Con and Dex to be a Mage, but each higher rank of spell needs increasingly higher Intelligence/Wisdom to cast. So the Mage whom I have who just barely could make it to the Mage Guild can't cast any spells because her Int is only 12.
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fischsemmel
post May 27 2020, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE (crowbar_of_irony @ May 27 2020, 10:46 AM) *
I am not sure if I am getting something wrong, but there is no way to hit the stat requirements for mage, wizard, healer, thief or seeker with a new character right of the bat? I thought having legacy characters is the only way to play the game. For instance, there's a minimal requirement for Con and Dex to be a Mage, but each higher rank of spell needs increasingly higher Intelligence/Wisdom to cast. So the Mage whom I have who just barely could make it to the Mage Guild can't cast any spells because her Int is only 12.


It depends on the race. Races have different minimum and maximum stats, and different amounts of total points available at creation. You can subtract from stats (down to the racial minimum, if desired) to have more points to bump up other stats than you'd get from the initial stat points you have available to spend. You can't get into some guilds immediately (wizard, paladin, maybe a couple others), but most can be gotten into right after creation with one race or another (osiri for healer, gnome makes getting into mage really easy with some points left over even, etc).

But yeah, you're right that getting into a guild is only part of the battle, since many spells will require higher stats than you can start with. Increasing stat (and level) requirements on spells (and gear) are part of the progression and grind of the game like with gear and spells in other RPGs.

Like I said, I never use legacy characters. Part of the reason I can manage that is cause I've played on and off for like 20 years so I know the ropes, but it IS possible (viable, even) to do even when you're new if you follow most of the other suggestions about a good balance for your party and initial stat points and pausing your leveling (probably before 20) until you can max con on your guys (I max one at a time so I can get one guy leveling up higher as soon as possible) to benefit from bonus hits as much as possible.


I'm not sure how much guide/mechanic/tips info you've read so let me know if I'm going over your head with any terminology or anything, and I'll be happy to answer more questions smile.gif

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: May 27 2020, 04:25 PM
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fischsemmel
post May 27 2020, 04:34 PM
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I'm noticing that we really don't have a pure newbie guide around here. There's lots of tips and tricks and good suggestions in the stickies, but they're not presented in a way that a new player would be able to digest because of all the lingo and assumed knowledge. I'll try to get around to making a new player guide.
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BLauritson
post May 27 2020, 05:34 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ May 27 2020, 05:34 PM) *
I'm noticing that we really don't have a pure newbie guide around here. There's lots of tips and tricks and good suggestions in the stickies, but they're not presented in a way that a new player would be able to digest because of all the lingo and assumed knowledge. I'll try to get around to making a new player guide.


This is a good initiative and I like the start you've made on it already.

I've pinned the topic so it's up there with the rest of the guides now smile.gif


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Roland
post May 28 2020, 04:01 AM
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For a non-legacy party, the usual way to begin is to start out all your characters in the Nomad guild. That will get you some quick levels, and therefore hit points. When you reach level 30 in Nomad, then you can switch to your "real" guild. By that point, you should have found many potions and tomes to raise your stats. Just make sure you start the game with at least 10 intelligence and 10 wisdom so that you can read tomes.

The exception is Warriors. With them you should skip Nomad and start out in Warrior. Warriors, unlike other guilds, get more hits per level than Nomads.
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crowbar_of_irony
post May 28 2020, 04:39 AM
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QUOTE (Roland @ May 28 2020, 12:01 PM) *
For a non-legacy party, the usual way to begin is to start out all your characters in the Nomad guild. That will get you some quick levels, and therefore hit points. When you reach level 30 in Nomad, then you can switch to your "real" guild. By that point, you should have found many potions and tomes to raise your stats. Just make sure you start the game with at least 10 intelligence and 10 wisdom so that you can read tomes.

The exception is Warriors. With them you should skip Nomad and start out in Warrior. Warriors, unlike other guilds, get more hits per level than Nomads.


Meaning, I should just ignore the dialog box that says I would be getting less experience or some such, and switch them to Warrior at level 1?
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crowbar_of_irony
post May 28 2020, 04:41 AM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ May 28 2020, 12:23 AM) *
It depends on the race. Races have different minimum and maximum stats, and different amounts of total points available at creation. You can subtract from stats (down to the racial minimum, if desired) to have more points to bump up other stats than you'd get from the initial stat points you have available to spend. You can't get into some guilds immediately (wizard, paladin, maybe a couple others), but most can be gotten into right after creation with one race or another (osiri for healer, gnome makes getting into mage really easy with some points left over even, etc).

But yeah, you're right that getting into a guild is only part of the battle, since many spells will require higher stats than you can start with. Increasing stat (and level) requirements on spells (and gear) are part of the progression and grind of the game like with gear and spells in other RPGs.

Like I said, I never use legacy characters. Part of the reason I can manage that is cause I've played on and off for like 20 years so I know the ropes, but it IS possible (viable, even) to do even when you're new if you follow most of the other suggestions about a good balance for your party and initial stat points and pausing your leveling (probably before 20) until you can max con on your guys (I max one at a time so I can get one guy leveling up higher as soon as possible) to benefit from bonus hits as much as possible.


I'm not sure how much guide/mechanic/tips info you've read so let me know if I'm going over your head with any terminology or anything, and I'll be happy to answer more questions smile.gif


I am quite ok with the game mechanics, it's just the sheer frustration of not having enough stats. And for some reasons, I can't seem to get any other tomes but tomes of insight, and after an entire day of playing (24 hrs!) I only got 1 tome of endurance.
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fischsemmel
post May 28 2020, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE (crowbar_of_irony @ May 28 2020, 12:39 AM) *
Meaning, I should just ignore the dialog box that says I would be getting less experience or some such, and switch them to Warrior at level 1?


Yeah, if you're making a character that can be a warrior at 1, you should level up as that instead of as nomad. The game/manual don't always give the best advice, though for a purely new player who isn't getting any help from an old community of mordor players, staying in nomad for however long it says to isn't really BAD advice.



Try not to be frustrated by not having enough stats. That'd be like playing WoW and being frustrated that you can't join max level raids when you're brand new and only been playing a few hours. It's just part of the progression of this game, building up your stats, joining new guilds, killing more monsters, finding new gear, powering up spells, repeating.

Are you sure you haven't been finding a mix of tomes? I've literally always, in every game I've played in the last couple years (probably 150+ hours spent on level 1) found insight to be the RAREST tomes. Usually I find tons of agility, a decent amount of strength, charisma, and endurance, fewer int, and fewest insight. Back when we had the wiki up, it mentioned that certain monster types tend to drop certain tomes, which explains these drop ratios because there are a ton of thief types on level 1 but not too many mage types. Anyway, yeah, if you're getting all of the first floor explored and killing everything on it in like 10-15 minutes with a party, you should be averaging multiple tomes per clear. I started another fresh game a couple days ago and in 6 hours I've found 8 con tomes and 3 con potions (and a total of like 60 tomes, 19 of which were agility).


If grinding for tomes is frustrating, don't take my advice about pausing your leveling; just keep leveling up in Nomad (and any other guild you have gotten into). Around guild levels 20-30 a party can navigate the 2nd floor pretty safely, which gives you something new to do and lets you find new gear and more experience than is available on 1 alone. You'll have fewer hit points, but it won't make the game unplayable in any sense. It's how the designer intended it, I'm pretty sure. The optimal leveling path was just emergent gameplay players figured out.
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fischsemmel
post May 28 2020, 11:30 AM
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On a related note, there are quite a few Mordor videos on youtube (search "Mordor dejenol" and you find them), including this playlist aimed at newer players from one of the forum members here, Mythril: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_eNSnq1a-0...mQSYzi6ev65Tccr
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Roland
post May 28 2020, 05:53 PM
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I believe Tomes of Endurance are a specific drop of some low-level Undead monsters. Using the SuperSeer, I see at least 25 encounter areas on level 1 that can spawn Undead.
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MythrilZenith
post Jun 16 2020, 09:57 PM
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Oh hey someone linked my T&T playlist tongue.gif Man I haven't made a video for that in a while. I need to do that...

Mordor is a game you can play however you want. I WILL say that my current install began with a "Trailblazer" character - an Ogre whom I leveled primarily in Warrior and then secondarily as Scavenger, with the express purpose of going around floor 1 gathering tomes. While I wouldn't say you need to max all your stats, it is at least nice to have a high starting Con to make the most out of your first 30 to 41 levels in terms of HP gain.

While I don't think the Optimal Leveling Route (OLR) is strictly necessary, it definitely helps make the middle portion of the game quite a bit easier, as you'll be getting between 100-300 extra HP depending on race, Con, quest failing and guild allowance.

If you want to set up legacy characters for the OLR, your main goal with your first character or party is to be able to get down to level 3 and start farming Aards of Being from the Goblin Shamans toward the north part of the map. These are potions that raise every stat by +1, though they do have a minimum level requirement of level 3 Nomad. Those two levels don't really matter *that* much though.

As far as tomes and potions are concerned, each one has a much higher drop chance from some enemies than others.
-Strength is more common from warriors and non-thief humanoids like Orcs
-Dexterity is more common from thief types, so footpads & gredlan rogues.
-Constitution drops more often from undead, such as zombies and the 'sae's
-Int drops from some spellcasters, Wis drops from others. I don't remember which one is what.
-Charisma drops more from dragons, particularly the Psuedo-Dragons on floor 1.

You will most likely find FAR more tomes of Str, Dex and Cha than Con, Int or Wis. Str and Dex because those monsters are far more common, and Cha because the psuedo-dragon is soft-laired and has a high item drop rate.

Int and Wis can be tricky because the mages are somewhat sporadic, though there are a few good places to farm for them on floor 3. I generally find Aards of Being to be the easier way to increase those stats.

Con is the hardest to farm for, not only because undead are less common than the other monster types, but because they also seem to have a low item drop chance.


As for starting in a different guild, different races can potentially get the starting stats to start in other guilds, though some may require you to adjust your stats in awkward ways. Of note are Osiri, who can start as Healer or Thief without any stat increases (though an Osiri Healer is the slowest leveling race/guild combo in the game), Giants and Ogres who can start as warriors on their base stats alone, and Elves or Gnomes who can start as sorcerer or mage.

In the long term, you're going to want to level Nomad to 30 before any spellcasters, but taking that first level can be nice to provide you with some low-level spells for some cheap group damage, to speed up the process of leveling other guilds. Shock might not be a *good* spell, but it still kills up to 4 monsters at a time instead of 1 wink.gif

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Jun 16 2020, 10:02 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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