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> A Fresh Party or "a mod should probably condense my gameplay threads into one"
fischsemmel
post Sep 7 2019, 05:14 PM
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Two days ago, bored with the slow progress of my solo human, I suddenly was struck by the desire to play a full party again. And to keep it a bit more interesting, I figured I'd try to do it without deaths. I'm fairly certain this is basically impossible, to beat the game with a no-death party, because it's just a matter of when, not if, someone gets stoned in a surprise round. But I'll treat it like a no-death game until that happens, and keep deaths to absolute minimum otherwise, and take reasonable measures to not enter mythical rooms until pariahs.

As much as I enjoy soloing, the dynamic of a party where you have more guilds and different alignments all together is fun. And in the last 2.5 days, I've already spent 13 hours binging on this party.

I made an osirri and a dwarf, and two good humans. The osirri will be a seeker, thief, healer. The dwarf my go-to frontline guy, warrior, healer. The humans are warrior, mage and warrior, sorcerer. A third guild might get added to the non-osirri eventually (sorcerer or wizard).

I started off taking everyone up to 5 (warrior for those who could and nomad for the osirri), but decided itd take too long and age my guys too much to grind all the tomes of endurance I need at only level 5, so I took them up to 10. I put the osirri into thief asap, rushed getting him the stats for charm of opening, and eventually had the gold saved up between IDing tomes and potions to join healer and slow my aging.

At like 7-8 hours played I had enough gold and tomes to max my osirri con, and he shot up to 20 nomad, thief, and healer. This helped me start poking around on level two with him basically babysitting my 3, 77-hp characters with 40-ish defense so I could make some more gold from slavers area.

Late last night at about 10-11 hours, my 10 warrior/sorcerer human maxed con and has been gaining levels now also. I've been generally distributing tomes to try to max con of 1 guy at a time and otherwise using them as they are aligned to get into more guilds. My two guys still at 10 have barely had any con boosts yet but are close to joining healer and mage to give them something more to do in the meanwhile. And mu sorcerer almost has the charisma finally to cast the three essential protections imo (stoning, draining, paralysis in that order) to start poking towards goblins on level 3.

It's the progress that keeps me having fun in Mordor. My human spent so little time on level 1 that he only has ever seen 1 potion of youth in 110 hours. This party has already seen 8! But Im still happy to play more on 1 and 1/3 of 2 because I'm seeing steady progress of my characters towards my goals for them smile.gif


I'm looking forward to mowing down trivial groups with 3 warriors' worth of melee swings while I'm targetted on the osirri in the back, opening fate traps with my non-thief healer, setting nuke spells on all 4 buffers before entering a nasty room, and seeing more of the dungeon than my "ideal" routes since I'll need more space to pin everyone before the "ideal" routes respawn. Weeeeee fresh Mordor games!


Edit - please don't actually combine my threads on my account, haha. I've got so many now, but the old ones won't get updates when I move on to the newest thing wink.gif

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Sep 7 2019, 05:16 PM
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BLauritson
post Sep 7 2019, 06:27 PM
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Sounds exciting! It makes me want to load up my party again but unfortunately got too much else vying for my attention right now so haven't made the time to play. I do look forward to reading your updates on the party.

QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Sep 7 2019, 06:14 PM) *
Edit - please don't actually combine my threads on my account, haha. I've got so many now, but the old ones won't get updates when I move on to the newest thing wink.gif


Don't worry, I won't biggrin.gif


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MythrilZenith
post Sep 7 2019, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Sep 7 2019, 11:14 AM) *
It's the progress that keeps me having fun in Mordor. My human spent so little time on level 1 that he only has ever seen 1 potion of youth in 110 hours. This party has already seen 8! But Im still happy to play more on 1 and 1/3 of 2 because I'm seeing steady progress of my characters towards my goals for them smile.gif


I'm looking forward to mowing down trivial groups with 3 warriors' worth of melee swings while I'm targetted on the osirri in the back, opening fate traps with my non-thief healer, setting nuke spells on all 4 buffers before entering a nasty room, and seeing more of the dungeon than my "ideal" routes since I'll need more space to pin everyone before the "ideal" routes respawn. Weeeeee fresh Mordor games!


Mordor is definitely a very different game with a party compared to with a solo character. So much other stuff to consider. You can get so much deeper at such lower levels, but you also NEED to keep delving deeper because the experience gets split. There's also a lot more risk of one character getting alpha-striked when you're going this deep in a group, since generally you aren't hitting the HP cap before getting to floors 14 and 15. And then there's the companion chance of hitting other party members, the stacking of buffers, random teleporters splitting up the party...

Yeah, solo play is slower and grindier, but also more convenient in some of the other aspects. But still, that variation is what makes Mordor so fun!


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 7 2019, 10:02 PM
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It'll be interesting to see how any patience I developed doing a few solo games since my last party affects this party.

I just killed goblin shamans and lord twice a bit ago, despite two of my guys still only being level 10, but I've got 1 guy with acidic spray and 2 with leprosy now (and just got my mage started also), so I can wipe out stuff when I know it's coming.

I'm still, uh, 7 endurance bumps from my dwarf warrior/healer getting to level above 10, and 10-12 more before my last guy, the mage, gets to. But still, it's been 14-15 hours almost all on 1st floor and I'm not bored! laugh.gif

For sure the highlight of the party so far was when my thief had his int and insp maxed and got to about 15 and suddenly could ID beyond "tome" or "potion" though. The gold difference from that is what let me start saving enough to join extra guilds while still IDing tomes to use.


You can't actually use a tome that isn't fully IDed right? Not effectively? I was pretty dang positive I used a neutral tome earlier based on price and # in the store earlier but I got a nothing happens message foe my neutral character.

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Sep 7 2019, 10:08 PM
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 7 2019, 10:53 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Sep 7 2019, 04:02 PM) *
You can't actually use a tome that isn't fully IDed right? Not effectively? I was pretty dang positive I used a neutral tome earlier based on price and # in the store earlier but I got a nothing happens message foe my neutral character.


You can, but if you aren't the same alignment (only revealed on full ID) then it won't take effect. Neutral characters are fairly safe, because if they try to use a non-neutral tome they will just get no benefit, but if a good/evil character uses an opposite-aligned tome or potion they will lose stats instead (still no effect from neutral tomes).

This very interaction is the reason the Tome of Lies exists, and is a store-held item instead of being a cursed item. And no, you don't gain stats from using an opposite-aligned tome of lies - it just hurts everyone diablo.gif


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 8 2019, 01:52 AM
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Heh, yeah, I remember trying an opposite tome of lies once a d being dissapointed.

I'll have to try a not-fully-IDed time again. I was sure enough last time about the alignment that when it didnt work, I figured it just doesn't ever unless fully IDed.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 8 2019, 03:02 PM
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Finally managed to scrounge up enough constitution things to get my healer's con maxed. I'm actually sitting on like 30 million gold now even though I just spent 15 realigning tomes/potions and joined wizard guild with my thief to finish up his optimal leveling path ... but the stuff on 1st and 2nf floor just aren't dropping enough con stuff for me!

I'm zipping along though. Nothing on 1st floor even scratches my guys as they run around looking for chests, and the 2nd floor is hardly more dangerous. 3rd I'm very careful on still, always with stoning and drain resist, healing fully between fights, full buffers when I go into the 3 goblin rooms. I've only seen 1 aard, and it was so expensive to ID I decided it was more efficient to sell it and use the gold on more tome/potion IDing and new guild fees.

Hopefully only 2-3 more hours of grinding for tomes and I'll have my mage's con maxed and can get serious. I've got a lot of gear upgrades (suede leather, girdles and gloves of strength, etc) waiting, but at level 10 where my guys were waiting to max con, most of it isn't usable yet. I'll have to remind myself to be cautious when I finally get to break free from the time grind so I don't get someone stoned or fall down a chute or something ... laugh.gif
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fischsemmel
post Sep 9 2019, 01:21 PM
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At 19 hours played with the party, I finally maxed my 4th character's constitution. Next up is getting my osirri a few seeker levels so I can map more safely, then exploring all of 1-2 and starting to exp grind on 3, working all my guys towards 30 in their main guilds and 41 wizard before I chase after a bunch of guild crests!

The crests will keep me busy for quite a while. 3x warrior, 2x healer, 2x sorcerer, 1 mage, 1 seeker, 1 thief, probably 1 wizard too cause I think my good human warrior/sorcerer will end up outleveling everyone else and a 2nd source of mind damage and teleports won't hurt. My poor osirri is gonna be worked hard... Seeker, thief, and backup healer with the worst exp requirements of my races! But in time he'll get rewarded with all the blessings! smile.gif
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 9 2019, 11:22 PM
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Man, your dedication to running your characters at low levels until you get max CON manually is really admirable. Heck, that's the biggest reason why once I started playing legacy I never went back laugh.gif

Early-to-midgame Mordor, once you understand the game mechanics, is pretty clear on your goals, which I both like and dislike. OLR for max hp, level to guild crest level, and work on max stats. It's simple, it's easy, it's fun, but at the same time it is a system that both rewards good play and punishes suboptimal play. Max HP is one of the hardest things to raise in Mordor - it's all raw leveling - and without the OLR the game gets a lot harder, but it's one of those things that, now that I know about it, I can't in good conscience NOT do it, because I hate the feeling of leaving such a major benefit on the table.

It's really the late-game that the game becomes a lot more open and kind of aimless. Do you collect all the monsters in confinement? Do you hunt all the bosses? Which classes are you even leveling? It becomes much more open to player choice and a lot less clearly optimizeable, since each course of action has pros and cons to it.


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 10 2019, 12:18 AM
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Yeah, I feel ya. Im honestly not a huge fan of OLP... but I couldn't NOT do it after my first death with my solo human would have been avoided if I'd had an extra 100+ hp.

I think going up to 10 with a party then finishing with OLP is a good mix. A full party at 10, especially if you set up starting stats so you have a thief and/or a healer asap, handles the grinding well without aging too much returning to town. And then focusing on getting a thief maxed con first even if it means realigning tomes other characters could use means you can use that character to carry everyone else along. And you're still getting 3/4 the benefit that a legacy character would have.

None of my guys have started to get bonus hits from the wizard levels yet, but they're all working on wizard now. I'm tempted to get 4x wizard crests while I'm at it since Merlin is only level 48! But really I'll never have anyone as wizard except my warrior/sorc as his distant-third guild, so I probably won't smile.gif


I definitely don't think I'd recommend strict OLP to new player though. Non-rocking deaths are mild enough that I think they're just a good part of the game experience really that bring balance to the race age and exp mods and use of a party instead of solo, etc. But for old vets like us who are trying to hold ourselves to higher standards or purposely playing with handicaps for fun, sticking closer to full OLP is a bigger deal.

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MythrilZenith
post Sep 10 2019, 05:15 AM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Sep 9 2019, 06:18 PM) *
I definitely don't think I'd recommend strict OLP to new player though. Non-rocking deaths are mild enough that I think they're just a good part of the game experience really that bring balance to the race age and exp mods and use of a party instead of solo, etc. But for old vets like us who are trying to hold ourselves to higher standards or purposely playing with handicaps for fun, sticking closer to full OLP is a bigger deal.


Yeah, while I definitely appreciate the OLR for just how overpowered it feels to have a character with THAT many hit points going into floors 2 and 3, it definitely isn't a hard requirement. I remember back in the day when I first played Mordor, I didn't realize how the party mechanic worked, so all my characters were solos. Plus I didn't want to wait to join a guild, so I only ever played characters that could join a non-Nomad guild with their starting stats, and never actually leveled Nomad at all. I still remember working so hard to piece together enough stat boosts to get my Osiri thief to cast charm of opening, or dying so much and ACTUALLY getting complications from a non-rock raise with like a 2% chance. (was probably closer to 10% because I lost constitution so much I had like 6 con by then. I literally had to retire characters JUST from losing too much constitution, it was so bad).

Also I remember going down to floor 2 with a lone thief and immediately dying to a skuldragl or slaver hitting me for 20. Those types of memories build character, and also maybe scar you for life. I started reading the Mordor ReadMe and walkthrough extensively just to figure out why this game was so hard. It was only after that that I discovered that higher Con increases HP growth (hey I was like 8 at the time, cut me some slack). So I played an ogre warrior with max con. Then I became an edgy pre-teen and thought, "ninjas are cool." So I made a troll ninja. I kept on that character, my brother kept with a giant warrior. Man, those were the days. Back when neither of us knew what we were doing. Back when level 7 was a scary place that I was so worried I would get lost in and never be able to find my way out.

So yeah, the OLR means a lot to me, because it was something I had to claw my way through and figure out myself, back before I even knew that this website existed. But without those experiences of learning what life was like without the OLR I never would have valued it so highly.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Sep 10 2019, 05:19 AM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 10 2019, 11:02 AM
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That sums up my early mordor as well! I was probably like 12 years old, only had the shareware version, thought becoming a guild master was an unreachable height, only did solo and single, non-nomad guild, never had resists so I always was getting paralyzed and stoned, etc. laugh.gif

I'm not sure exactly why or how or when my newer, adult interest in Mordor popped up. My oldest post on these forums is from 2016 and sums up my early mordor days and mentions I had started a party and was playing more seriously at that point... but I've been a member here since 2011 so I must have had Mordor on the mind earlier than 2016!

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BLauritson
post Sep 10 2019, 05:23 PM
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I think I was 13 when I first discovered Mordor, it was on a CD with 1000 shareware programs on it. I remember being entranced by the theme music, the concept of the MUD even on a single player PC, the massive amounts of gold one accumulates relative to a lot of other RPGs (a few hundred thousand gold pieces? That's a kingdom's wealth in some games!), no doubt other things that captured my attention.

I remember my very first encounter was a Giant Centipede north of the starting stairs, which promptly killed me because despite having bought all the cheap bronze starting equipment in the store, I hadn't realised you then needed to manually equip those items. One poisoned human corpse coming right up!

Looks like I joined in 2004 so I would have been 17 then. I must have started to drift away from it in my late teens but last year I suddenly found myself thinking about it again and here I am now! Not posting that often but still keeping an eye on things and reading everyone's progress stories, which are always entertaining. I will get back on to my own party at some point but I've just been too busy with other things to devote time to it sadly.


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Roland
post Sep 10 2019, 06:40 PM
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I must be a lot older than you guys. I never used a computer before my second semester in college. Pong was hot (for a year or so) when I was in high school. I started playing D&D my first year in college. It was shortly before the AD&D hardcovers were published, so we started playing under the original rules in 8.5x5.5 softcovers.

In grad school I got hooked on Avatar, the networked multiplayer predecessor of Mordor. Years later one of the friends I had played Avatar with discovered Mordor, and I started a character in his dungeon. It was around 20 years later when I acquired my own copy of Mordor and started playing for nostalgia's sake during a stressful time in my life (shortly after losing 80% of my stuff in a fire).

I intially started a Dwarf Seeker to explore the dungeon. I think he died six times in the first hour because it took me a while to master the controls (which are somewhat different from those in Avatar). I did not start up my Gnome and second Dwarf until I had found enough potions and tomes to start them with max con. And I abused the heck out of the quest forfeit bug to get extra hits, but I never leveled in Wizard. I intially ran each character, essentially, as a solo character, with Frar (who was leveling in Thief by that point) trailing behind each of the latter two to open boxes. I did not plan to run the three of them together as a party - and when I did put them together I thought of it as a temporary arrangement until I could build up another good-aligned character to run with the Gnome. That never happened, and they are still running together as a three-character party, dominating 15.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 10 2019, 07:26 PM
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laugh.gif. Good times.

I'm 35, ran into Mordor within a year or two of it's initial release I think.

I have a little box with a minotaur on the cover iirc, somewhere. Odd that a box only came with the shareware version!
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fischsemmel
post Sep 10 2019, 08:56 PM
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Well I wrapped up the optimal leveling route. And then I was super pumped because, go figure, warrior and thief levels in the 30s go by a lot quicker than 40 wizard. I had to call it good for the day with my highest warrior at 56, poised to supplant Garth within minutes next time I play! My other two warriors wont be far behind, and meanwhile my osirri is working on catching Nimblefingers.

With 320-370 hp or so, and 150-170ish defense, and leprosy and acid spray and summon shade to buffer up before walking into named monster rooms, I've been wrecking goblin shamans, dwarven lords, and most of level 5 for experience.

I've pushed down to 7 to cut straight out into the water area to see how that is for exp, but it's not too impressive with a whole party needing exp, so I'll keep on 5 for exp until I have a crew of guild masters then I'll be ready to venture a bit deeper I think.

After starting to find teleport traps, I'll definitely be working one of my non-thieves in wizard to help locate the thief (who will be my only seeker) when he gets disappeared by a failed disarm. But otherwise everything's going according to plan ... though I've been lax so far on learning mythical rooms and avoiding them.
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 11 2019, 02:24 PM
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Haha, it's kind of interesting being a part of this community considering I'm only 24. One of the few gaming communities that I can actually say I'm one of (if not the) youngest people in it laugh.gif
Mordor came out the year I was born. I remember my dad having months and months of those "pc gamer" demo/shareware CD's, which he let my brother and I play. I was probably 5 or 6 when I first discovered Mordor. It was one of only a handful of games from those demo CD's that not only looked interesting to start, but captured our interest for years. Several years later my brother asked for the full version of Mordor for his birthday, and my family was kind of surprised to find that it was still being published after all those years.
I still remember my first time going to this site was to print out full Mordor maps you had. Man we must have drained an entire ink cartridge laugh.gif

Anyway sorry for hijacking the thread. Looks like you're hitting your stride after OLR and approaching guildmaster! There really is a really fast sense of power growth around those levels. While it's kind of too bad that same sense of power growth doesn't stay, Mordor still does a good job of making sure you're still feeling SOME growth as you level.

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Sep 11 2019, 02:25 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 11 2019, 03:59 PM
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On that note, I'm now a 3x warrior guild master and a thief guild master. laugh.gif. I left off powerleveling a 2nd sorcerer to spread the Mana cost of buffing around (resist buffing humans is rough!) since I figured I might as well get two sorcerer crests while I'm at it.

But on an unrelated note, are odd combinations of monsters (like a gredlan rogue and a black bear appearing together) some bug only present with parties? I don't think I remember a single instance of an odd monster combo in 100+ hours on my human recently, but I've seen a dozen or more in 30 hours with this party.
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MythrilZenith
post Sep 11 2019, 04:51 PM
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QUOTE (fischsemmel @ Sep 11 2019, 09:59 AM) *
On that note, I'm now a 3x warrior guild master and a thief guild master. laugh.gif. I left off powerleveling a 2nd sorcerer to spread the Mana cost of buffing around (resist buffing humans is rough!) since I figured I might as well get two sorcerer crests while I'm at it.

But on an unrelated note, are odd combinations of monsters (like a gredlan rogue and a black bear appearing together) some bug only present with parties? I don't think I remember a single instance of an odd monster combo in 100+ hours on my human recently, but I've seen a dozen or more in 30 hours with this party.


No, I've seen a few on my solo character, though it is quite rare.
I think this happens most often when the game decides to spawn as the primary monster something MUCH weaker than the floor would normally have, and then adds on a beast-type monster to beef up the group? I'm not sure exactly what causes this, and like I said it's quite rare. Most recent example I've had is when the game spawned a Kobold with a Pandrun on floor 10 :what:

I could be wrong though as I don't fully know what causes this. Are you running an install with an edited .mdr file? (like the one that enables T'Mana, dragon turtles, etc., or the Colorful Gremlins mod).

This post has been edited by MythrilZenith: Sep 11 2019, 04:53 PM


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Just an average nomad trying to figure out how Mordor really works.

I've also taken the liberty of recording some videos of Mordor: Depths of Dejenol!

Classics are classic, but never mistake nostalgia for superiority. When older is better, it's because it truly is, not just because our perception of it makes it so.
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fischsemmel
post Sep 11 2019, 07:34 PM
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Nope, vanilla install. Maybe it was just a mix of luck and how quickly the party clears rooms that I am noticing them now. I remember reading the mechanics behind it on the forums here once, but no idea where exactly.

I had an anthropod and a dimeon (I think, they died fast) spawn on me since my last comment, too. On floor 5 I think.

This post has been edited by fischsemmel: Sep 11 2019, 07:35 PM
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